Yeah and a Frost Mage is the same as a Fire Mage , a Demo Lock is the same as an Afflock and All Rogues are exactly the same .
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nah there is a clear as day difference there. Its known for years the hunter specs have all been basically the same spec with different gimmicks. It was even a meme for awhile till legion corrected some things.
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This is most likely pointless, but Iāll ask anywayā¦
You keep saying these things, feel free to actually back that argument up with some specifics as to how the specs were ābasically the sameā.
And no, Iām not talking about the design and gameplay as it was in WotLK and prior. Iām talking from Cata-WoD. The time where we actually had core specs.
And also, since you brought up the current game, feel really to elaborate on why we couldnāt have a modern version of RSV put in that has gotten the same treatment as other specs did in Legion, one with itās own full set of talents, additional baseline core functions and interactions, etc.
Many like Metroid are eager to argue about what the specs were like, but few seem willing to argue about what could be, based on current game design(in WoW).
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we been down this road before. We already covered this once or twice but you keep trying to ask the same questions on different threads. RSV was just MM currently. MSV is clearly the better version.
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Not sure where such a barrier would come from. I must not be speaking to an American. Thereās plenty of English-majority speaking countries, but thereās no telling which one youāre from.
You really donāt come to the forums for any reason other than to try to grief people, do you?
Other mmoās have got way more creative with their classes than WoW, and the systems work great.
Look at Rift where there are only 4 base classes and each of those have a multitude of specs which do include every role. A tank spec for every class, a healer for every class, etc.
For example, Warrior has a Beastmaster spec that uses a pet and focuses on bleeds, the tank spec for Rogues focuses on teleports and evasion.
It can easily be done and offers far more diversity for playstyles.
Just give up already. Always come back days later with more nonsensical posts.
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Yes, Iām well aware. Hence why I started my reply withā¦
Ah yes, this argument once again.
Hereās the last time you actually did say something more about the subject other than one-liners like the one above:
#Stop speaking on sv - #66 by Ghorak-laughing-skull
It contains my thoughts on what you said in yourā¦video. I know you like to ignore most(all) counter-arguments to what youāve said ābECauSe FOruMsā, so Iāll just leave some of them here for others to read as well, unless they prefer to watch the video itself. Itās ironic seeing how several of your arguments and motivations contradict eachother.
MetroƮd:
But the thing is that Survival for the most part has always been a melee-spec. Itās been like that since Vanilla.
Like, if you look at the old talent trees back from Classic, itās literally aimed towards, you know, keeping yourself alive but also focusing on melee instead of ranged offensive abilities. Because for many many years, like, pretty much all the hunter specs were, well, they were almost pretty much the same. I mean sure, you have your similarities and you have your differences but I think thatās why the hunter was always pretty much the noob class because all three specs no matter which one you picked areā¦itās like all the same playstyle.
So like, every time I get on the forums everyoneās complaining, wanting Survival to go back to being ranged whenā¦I just donāt understand why they just wonāt play Marksman which for the most part, itās the same thing. And I know a lot of people will disagree with me but, it (Marksman) really is. Likeā¦Iām sorry, I may not be playing at mythic Sire Denathriusā levels of content or at 3000 arena rating but itās the same f**ing playstyle. Like, youāre not using your traps as much when playing Marksman butā¦it was the same thing.
I kind of like that Survival(current) in a sense is like Unholy Death Knight, where you can do both ranged and melee, kinda like a hybrid. I mean, it has always really been like that, Iāve always appreciated that about it because you can basically pick your playstyle.
ā¦donāt complain that itās(Survival) not ranged anymore. I mean like, look, you can literally just grab a bow and arrow and, you can actually make a buildā¦
We donāt need all 3 specs being ranged. I already know anybody who watches this video, probably 90% of them are gonna disagree with me in some way because theyāre really salty about losing Explosive Shot - which is in Marksman now, so, itās not youāre really missing anything.
If you miss all these shots, then Marksman is pretty much your go-to. I mean, I donāt really care, all the specs were pretty much the same back in the day. It just depended on, especially in the WotLK-era, like, my godā¦
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I somehow overlooked your last post. Itās not easy talking to foreigners, hmm? Well, despite that Iāve seen two expansions of melee failure for SV. Just wait until the next xpac alpha comes out and then itāll be a triple.
Is this referring to the Serpent Sting nerf of 6.2? That did contribute to killing ranged Survival in that patch but that was just a month before Legion was announced. Blizzard had certainly already decided by that point to make Survival melee.
It is very unusual for an MMO class or specialisation to be reworked into something to appeal to a totally different audience because it defies common sense.
A very comparable example is Bard in Final Fantasy 14. It was changed in Heavensward (first expansion) to stop being a fully mobile archer and into a more stationary Mage-esque bowmage. It failed so spectacularly they largely reverted to the original design outline in the next expansion.
As for being creative: making melee specs is no longer the creative path for Blizzard because thatās all they do. Every DPS spec added to the game post-launch has been melee. In fact making a new ranged spec would be creative.
None of this is an argument in favour of changing Survival to a melee spec so Iām not sure why youāre bothering to tell me this. Changing specialisations away from their existing roles is a bad idea, period. It seems youāre caught up on the concept of multiple roles in one class and not understanding that the problem here is that they changed the role of an existing spec.
Again, if they wanted to create more diversity in playstyles they would represent ranged weapons more because we only have 2 specs representing those v.s. 13 melee specs. Stop pretending it was some bold, creative decision to make Survival a melee spec. Making melee specs is Blizzardās comfort zone. Itās their default state of mind.
While he does genuinely believe the things he says, he has also admitted in the past that he posts deliberately bad baiting arguments to troll ranged Survival fans. This is why heās the only poster Iāve put on my ignore list. Heās not seeking any genuine discussion and itās not like heās providing any convincing arguments as to why SV should be melee.
He does have a youtube channel where he explains more details about what he thinks about Survival. Among other things, he thinks Survival was genuinely a melee spec in Classic and that the current Marksmanship is functionally equivalent to ranged Survival because you can talent into an ability named Explosive Shot. In short, like most melee Survival diehards, he lives in a world of delusion.
EDIT: Letās not forget that heās also the kind of person who uses alt characters to pretend to be other people backing up his arguments.
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Its actually because I dont live here. I got other things to do and only come here to see you and bepples complaining about living in the past. Also, its not that im trying to ignore the counter arguments, I just know its pointless to further engage with someone who lives in 2015. Like, the class is different bruh. Its what it should be. You still have 2 other bow specs to use, one being half of what my spec was originally so you good homie. Its almost 2022 and we still complaining about pre legion play styles. If you wanna focus any annoyance towards blizzard on that, should be more upset with the fact hunter pets are incredibly boring now. Who honestly cares if we use polearms now? Survival was always the least fav hunter spec nothing has changed in that regard. If anything its more interesting now and def more fun to play. But yeah, oh noes we lost black arrow and explosive shot UNPLAYABLE AND RUINED!
Should focus on killing Sylvanas mate. You here too much complaining, work on that rotation bruh
I decided to check out his first video where he talks about Survival, just as a comparison from what he is saying now, both in the previously linked video as well as on these forums. Itās like night and day really, to say the least.
And it also happens to discredit pretty much every single thing heās said in that more recent video as wellā¦
His first video from 2019
First, he explains how he started playing a Hunter in Burning Crusade.
I did notā¦uhmā¦try Survival until Wrath of the Lich King, and I only did Survival because I wasnāt really enjoying Marksman, whenever I tried that. And, just something about Beast Mastery that didnāt work out with me because I think like everyone else was playing it and it didnāt feel right playing the same thing literally everyone else is playing.
So I decided āhey, letās play Survivalā. And I fell in love with the whole concept of Explosive Shot and Black Arrow and Snake Trap. I really enjoyed those abilities. So I made sure my hunter only did Survival.
Now, when Legion came out, thatās when they reworked all the classes and all the specs, Survival became a melee class(spec), straight up, I know rightā¦
Even though I would have to argue that after all these years playing Survival, it is not actually a melee spec. Now, taken Iām doing it right now because I can kill these mobs easy (referencing what he is doing in the video while talking). Butā¦Survival was never about being a melee spec, it was all pretty muchā¦ehmā¦(about)getting the hell outta there, like this, seeā¦you wanna get out (gameplay reference in the video again), and you wanna get your range back. Thatās pretty much all you do as Survival (in Classic).
Now, some people like to argue āNo, youāre supposed to engage in sword to sword -combatā. Well thatās not the case, thatās not even true at all. You see, we got 4 melee-abilities; Raptor Strike, Wing Clip, Mongoose Bite, and Counterattack. These two (Mongoose Bite & Counterattack) donāt scream āHey, I want to be in meleeā. Raptor Strike is basically the Hunter version of Mortal Strike that an Arms warrior has. Wing Clip is all about, pretty much clipping the movement speed of the enemy so you can get the hell outta there. Mongoose Bite you can only do if you dodge (an incoming attack), and Counterattack is only if you parry an attack. You should be able to just get outta there.
Youāre really essentially like a hybrid of melee and ranged dps, but you want to stay at ranged dps, you donāt really want to be up close on the enemy. And if you do, the whole point of the spec is to utilize your chances of getting the hell outta there.
As a Hunter, youāre always going to want get Aimed Shot in Classic WoW because this is your hardest hitting ability. So regardless of what spec you are, youāre gonna want this ability. And of course, youāre gonna want to use Rapid Fire thatās going to increase your ranged attack speedā¦the whole point of it.
People who want to just play the spec only to melee, youāre kinda playing the wrong class for that. You should probably play like a Warrior or a Rogue or something.
He also mentions how he thinks that the devs wanted Survival to be about tanking but it just never happened, āor at least an off-tankā.
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Why you enjoy being a vitriolic, unintelligent sounding troll is beyond me. Your video made very few good points, but it was much less angsty, teenage troll than your forum persona.
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Yikes! This really makes me question the idea that heās genuine about his current arguments, then. I totally fail to see how someone can go from that mostly reasonable and accurate position to the delusional nonsense he puts out now. Itās like two totally different people. Or perhaps he just got so invested in melee Survival his position just became completely contorted over time?
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I can see that if MSV has everything it needed to be competitive, itās worth investing. People donāt seem to understand when I said in times past itās not even a good melee. As a SV you donāt have a lot of time to stand toe-to-toe vs. another melee. You better be prepared to start kiting because even now, you have no way to just turn damage off, especially offensively. Kiting, which is an antiquated mechanic I donāt want to get into the demerits thereof right now, is the only ādefenseā we have. Remarkably SV is very fast and quick, and if it was fully ranged, it would be nasty. Even the rings in my MM boots would be rattling of such a thing. A 38k SV that I outgear some 10-15 ilvl made me sweat a little in the city last week if only because of sheer speed.
Which is the SVās true crown. They really are the kings of speed. I wonder if Blizzard is keeping the ruler of speed demons sealed away, and that SV still needs to be melee so that OTHER melee DPS would be appeased in killing SV faster!
I sound like every other soy consumer on the forums. Were not so different you and I
Is soy consumer an insult?
Itās also hard to take you seriously when you canāt type well at all.
Anywho, welcome to my ignore list you dairy product eater! Take that.
I would probably go with this one. In the video, he did mention liking the idea of having something different to do while in melee vs. when at range, having different abilities.
I assume this is what heās after when he talks about āhybridā specs. Itās not actually about a spec that is designed to work well as a hybrid but rather one that just has different priorities depending on a relative position.
Heās found this in current SV and due to liking it, he now proceeds to ādefendā it in whatever way he can, even if that somehow motivates making arguments that directly contradict not only himself but also reality.
That plus the fact of what he said early in the second video about wanting to play something that everyone else wasnāt.
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Hybrids I thought referred to roles, not range capabilities.
I guess DKs, Monks, and even the DH class did nothing for him like that. I guess the new Outlaw Rogue missed the mark. Legion was a long time coming, but Iām pretty sure I heard ZERO discussion about making Survival melee in-game and in the forums.
He can play Marksman. Donāt see many of those around anymore. However, he may be right as I see more MMās than SVās so thereās that.
Not to mention the olā standby that is Warlock. Locks, traditionally, are a class nobody plays.
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