Some things are subjective yes. But after a certain point, and within context, it goes beyond that.
Metroîd has time and again made statements and claims about how RSV wasn’t very popular, and how all hunter specs were the same. To the point where he actively speaks against other posters who are asking for RSV’s return, saying that they’re wrong and should just play MM instead, because it plays like the old RSV anyway. Because “it’s all the same anyway”.
And the thing here is, as far as popularity/representation goes, you do not need to dig very deep to find out that RSV was actually a very popular and a commonly played hunter spec while it existed. Note that we are talking about the playstyle that existed between WotLK - WoD. Not SV as the talent category it was during Vanilla/TBC.
There’s recorded data proving that RSV was indeed a popular playstyle, even at times where it wasn’t necessarily performing at the top.
As for it’s design and the gameplay, and his claim that it was/is the same as MM, he hasn’t gone into much detail about why he “thinks” that this is the case. Any time someone asks him to elaborate on said claims, he just ignores them or replies with “I don’t need to explain any further because I’m right”.
Some examples:
Taken from what he said in a video he uploaded fairly recently.
But the thing is that Survival for the most part has always been a melee-spec. It’s been like that since Vanilla.
In short, no, Survival for the most part hasn’t always been a melee-spec since Vanilla.
In Vanilla, it wasn’t a spec at all, but a talent category with talents that added to the actual Core of the class as a whole, a core designed to focus primarily on ranged combat. We did not have multiple defined playstyles(specs) back then. As for the times that followed, the class as a whole(including Survival) became less and less about the aspect of melee. The actual Core Specialization known as Survival(prior to Legion), was introduced in Cataclysm and actually had next to nothing to do with melee, again, even less as time went on.
Like, if you look at the old talent trees back from Classic, it’s literally aimed towards, you know, keeping yourself alive but also focusing on melee instead of ranged offensive abilities. Because for many many years, like, pretty much all the hunter specs were, well, they were almost pretty much the same. I mean sure, you have your similarities and you have your differences but I think that’s why the hunter was always pretty much the noob class because all three specs no matter which one you picked are…it’s like all the same playstyle.
Here, he’s just flat out wrong, objectively. Why? Again, the era of Vanilla/TBC is irrelevant to this discussion. As per what I explained above.
Now I know Survival has never really been the best, I think for the most part it’s been Marksman but…I don’t know.
Here, granted that he doesn’t outright say what he means with “best”, but one can only assume that in context, he’s talking about performance and capability.
And like above, this is not just a matter of opinion or a subjective view, it’s just objectively wrong.
So like, every time I get on the forums everyone’s complaining, wanting Survival to go back to being ranged when…I just don’t understand why they just won’t play Marksman which for the most part, it’s the same thing. And I know a lot of people will disagree with me but, it (Marksman) really is. Like…I’m sorry, I may not be playing at mythic Sire Denathrius’ levels of content or at 3000 arena rating but it’s the same f**ing playstyle. Like, you’re not using your traps as much when playing Marksman but…it was the same thing.
Here, it’s enough for anyone to just look at the gameplay loop and the design of individual abilities as they were while part of RSV, and then look at current MM, and you immediately realise how…well…how they are NOT the same. Not even close.
And contrary to popular opinion, this part is not about subjective views. Those are irrelevant here. What matters is the precedent and the criteria set for class and spec design by the devs and this game as a whole. If you want to determine what’s too similar or what’s different, this needs to be done with the above in mind.
Something Metroîd still hasn’t done.
I kind of like that Survival in a sense is like Unholy Death Knight, where you can do both ranged and melee, kinda like a hybrid. I mean, it has always really been like that, I’ve always appreciated that about it because you can basically pick your playstyle.
No, Survival hasn’t always been like a hybrid. At least not in the way he thinks.
And yes, you can ofc fight in melee range even as a ranged spec/class. But in context, that’s not what “hybrid” means.
…don’t complain that it’s(Survival) not ranged anymore. I mean like, look, you can literally just grab a bow and arrow and, you can actually make a build…
In the video, here he went on to demonstrate how one changes specs in the game.
Anyway, not only does he fail to acknowledge the difference between “method of playing” and “intent of design(of a spec)”, he also completely misses the entire point people are trying to make when asking for the return of RSV, that being the actual playstyle it promoted. Something that’s impossible to replicate in current SV, no matter how you choose to play it.
We don’t need all 3 specs being ranged. I already know anybody who watches this video, probably 90% of them are gonna disagree with me in some way because they’re really salty about losing Explosive Shot - which is in Marksman now, so, it’s not you’re really missing anything.
Again, he misses the point people are trying to make about the playstyle of the spec(RSV) as a whole, and instead chooses to focus in on a single ability so that it can fit his narrative.
Not to mention how Explosive Shot as it’s designed to function for MM, does not in any way promote the same gameplay as it did while it was a part of RSV in the past.
If you miss all these shots, then Marksman is pretty much your go-to. I mean, I don’t really care, all the specs were pretty much the same back in the day. It just depended on, especially in the WotLK-era, like, my god…
Well, he doesn’t care…says enough on it’s own doesn’t it?
Anyway, he says “especially in the WotLK-era” which, in context of the era that existed before we actually got Core Specializations added to the game(again, this happened with Cataclysm), WotLK was the time where we had the most diversity in terms of playstyle-choices, more so than Vanilla/TBC.
So, once again, he is objectively wrong here.
Back to this…
My point here is that this is far from being just a case of subjective opinions. It’s about more than that. And no, Metroîd’s not the only one saying those things. Others do as well.
But that still doesn’t make what they say any more true. It only serves to discredit their arguments with subjective bias.