I don’t think you’re right, but I hope you are right xD
In every case, when the private servers were making the stats and the numbers, they always went with the highest estimation to be safe.
And when they did not have any values at all, they plugged in default values to be safe that could of actually been zero in the real game.
And yes, I have heard the same thing, adds have lost some of their abilties, and certain AI is worse on private servers. So this isn’t a perfect comparison, there are some factors that make the private servers easier, and some that make them actually more difficult.
Like the ones I’ve said before, the gear we will have in classic will be significantly better than private server gear… because we will have 1.12 stats on gear. We will have access to AQ40 quality gear before BWL comes out… that is significant…
Some private server even increase the health of raid bosses to higher than the values they were in vanilla in order to make them more difficult… and people are able to clear them still fairly easily.
Again, I hope you’re right… but from what I’ve been able to gather myself it looks like they will be easier.
They equate “harder hitting bosses with more HP” to “harder” when that’s not what makes PVE even remotely challenging because a player can gear, prep and talent to compensate for that.
The challenge of PVE is the mechanics, and these goofs think that missing raid mechanics are meaningless.
Multiple people have asked you to point out these “missing” raid mechanics on Rag, so let me ask you again, and I’ll be specific.
William, would you tell me which raid mechanics are missing on Ragnaros?
I’d love it if you could answer for real, instead of using that made-up strawman to feed into your argument of private server players sucking at vanilla. I have no idea why you think Molten Core is difficult content. It never was. I was able to do it as a kid brand new to MMO’s. Heck, I was able to 19-man it with only tier 1 gear. It isn’t hard.
Whether you need resist gear is going to depend on a lot of factors.
Melee (tanks in particular) need resist gear more than ranged. A lot of the mechanics that deal magical damage do so in a radius around the boss that ranged can sometimes avoid.
Some mechanics can’t be avoided. That’s where you need the resist gear. How much resist you need depends on your group’s DPS and your healers’ ability to perform.
No.
How would you know that if you can’t even validate the data used on private servers? For all you know, it’s way easier. That’s the point he was making.
Where is the evidence those servers are accurate, or where is the evidence that they’re overtuned compared to how things were in vanilla?
Also… “overtuned with progressive itemization”? You mean how things were in vanilla…?
New strategies formed on unverified private servers, yeah.
That’s not what a scapegoat is, and it’s not necessarily an argument that they are inaccurate or easier, but rather an argument that we have no way to confirm the validity of the data those servers use.
The strategies you formed might be based on things that differ from vanilla and the private server you play on. A scripting error, or an incorrect value for one of the bosses.
That’s not to say it’s necessarily wrong, but rather that it could be, which makes it useless as proof of how things were in vanilla or how they will be in Classic.
They can’t. It’s kind of a dumb thing to say, really.
My understanding is that - in the general sense - the bosses do not hit harder, and the HP is negated by the fact that the armor values are (according to Blizz responses I’ve seen) horribly undertuned.
It is amazing the amount of cope in posts like these. Just can’t stand the thought of a 15 year-old game being figured out even if it’s not 100% precise on pservers? Any differences are very insignificant, I have played both. But keep grasping for straws if that’s what makes you happy.
Its funny how people say this, yet my Druid Restoration BiS still shows 12 out of the 17 slots get replaced in MC after the updates to be “All 1.12 stats”.
Did I say that ragnaros was missing raid mechanics? No, I did not; I said that many certain raid mechanics are either missing or wrong. I said nothing regarding Ragnaros specifically; you assumed that I did.
Moreover I know how easy Molten Core is, my guild farmed it weekly along with BWL and ZG for a few items needed on alts or mains to complete PVE or PVP needs for the guild.
One of the guys from the old forums, he was in the top guild on my old server and those guys were clearing MC in 45 min on average, but that was the top guild on the server, we had it down to about an hour back then while carrying alts; I am assuming they were doing exactly the same.
Point is, the private servers are a nice thing to have when you don’t have access to Classic WoW, but they’re wrong.
I have never said that top guilds will be stuck in Molten Core, I have never claimed that MC is going to be super challenging for the best players…
I have merely pointed out that the logistics of a first week clear of MC is unrealistic, and that GEAR > Molten Core. I doubt that anyone is going to be able to get the needed raiders to 60 and gear them enough to complete molten core in addition to the logistics required to fully clear it in the first week.
2 or 3 weeks after launch? Sure that’s a lot more reasonable, but week 1 is just absurd for the following reasons.
Molten Core is not just about boss fights; there is a lot of trash. The trash is not technically hard, but the trash does have NPC raid mechanics and some of them are flat missing on the private servers or wrong.
Hit, Miss, Glancing, Armor calculations, resist calculations, all these are guesses by the private server devs and are also duly noted as “Wrong” by several players I have played with for the last 20 years. (I trust them more than I trust the private server research teams)
Gear is needed, and Dungeons do not have 100% drop rates, gearing the raid team for your pre-raid BiS list is not exact science and can be a major problem for your efforts.
Spawn rates on the needed materials in the world are not inflated like the private servers. The black lotus alone may actually be a real problem because of the ridiculously low spawn rate. Every single raider having a flask is not realistic, so don’t count on it.
Private server DPS values are balanced on the private server tank’s ability to produce enough threat to sustain those DPS player values… Do not count on your DPS players ability to produce as much DPS as you think is possible, it’s unrealistic to assume so. Many bosses in Vanilla (not all) are immune to taunt, so trying to get aggro back if some one pulls aggro is a real problem you may not have considered as a problem due to tank threat being very likely unrealistically high on private servers.
The Tanking situation alone throws a massive wrench into the works for the DPS players ability to deal damage, in turn throws a massive wrench into the works for the Healers ability to heal, changing how the healer must gear in turn changing how the DPS must gear, in turn changing how the tank must gear. All “Roles” are dependent on each other; you know this, or at least I hope you do. Because of that if the tank is artificially high in dealing threat (private servers) as a result making the raid DPS and healing situations artificially easier by miles.
What I am trying to point out here, is that no one single thing makes the raid’s easier or harder, but it’s the whole suite of things… Missing mechanics, wrong mechanics, fundamentally wrong math regarding the inner workings of the server, tanks that produce too much threat per their gear level, etc in turn throwing the whole “Balance” of the game out the window.
It’s not that the private server players bad, it’s that you’re playing an entirely different game that’s based on Classic WoW. The best you can hope for is that they’re close enough that you’re going to be able to get away with the strategy you’re hoping to use.
I wish you the best of luck, on your first week after launch day clear, but I doubt you’re gonna get there.
I love the anecdotal nature of your arguments. I, too, have players that “I have played with for the last 20 years” and base all of my arguments on what they say. Dropping the sarcasm, I’d rather not repeat from of my points from my thread: Ragnaros will be Dead in the First Week
You know, the thread you replied to within seconds of it being posted? (I still am impressed by your reading speed) But you are welcome to think that pre-raid bis is needed for MC, that MC trash can stop progression, that flasks are needed for MC, and that having 1.12 talents, 16-debuffs, and 1.12 nerfed encounters will somehow end up with an MC that hardcore guilds will struggle with.
Don’t get me wrong; I love theorycrafting and people developing new strategies, builds, or whatever else.
I don’t like private servers being used as proof of the validity of that theorycrafting, however. If people want to figure out new strategies and such on Classic, that’s cool, but don’t pretend figuring out a strategy on a private server means you figured out vanilla. Vanilla is over.
How would you know if you don’t have the original data? That’s all I’m saying.
Not saying you’re incompetent, I am trying to point out that your goal is totally unrealistic.
It’s true you don’t need a total pre-raid BiS / consumables; it’s not needed, but you then need to make up for the that with both competent players (should be easy) and a full raid of 40 because of the low output you’re going to have when you’re in greens.
Regardless of the the gear vs skill, you still need players who’re not hunters and warlocks… Hunters, locks and mages are the go to classes for the speed leveling players.
Warriors, rogues, paladin, priests, druids and shaman are not, and you need some of these to raid. Sure you can level in groups, but you’re again harmed by actual vanilla spawn rates and the lack of dynamic spawns on your ideal path.
Are the private server XP values actually true? Do you know that for certain?
Have you factored in even the smaller things like no joke leveling speeds based on mundane and almost trivial things while leveling such as the armor values of the NPC’s you’re fighting, and how glancing blows, misses, dodges, parry, and resist apply here? I know it’s not much but over 60 levels and 117 hrs /played that’s actually a factor to consider. Then there is the seemingly mundane stuff like the use of food, bandages, health potions, mana potions if you’re even using this stuff. Are the actual values of rate per second truly accurate? Does not sound like a lot but again a fraction over time adds up to a lot.
I am not trying to derail your dreams, but I just don’t think you guys have really considered all these seemingly small and mundane details… It’s always the mundane details that ruin projects like this.