So if Horde AV cave was moved back in TBC

I think the development of Korak’s Revenge should be reason enough to understand why people expected something different. And even if they expected 1.12, that does not mean they wanted it.

I think a vast majority of players when they think of “Vanilla Alterac Valley” conjure up memories of hour-long brawls…not pve-races. Whether or not that is reasonable for them to have expected or not…doesn’t change that is what they wanted.

My memories of AV vanilla was getting killed by guards that were not tuned and by mages who could blink into walls and talents that made 0 sense. 1.12 could have zerging but its the players ruining that experience not blizzard. In any game you could abuse some mechanics to beat the game very fast. Skyrim you could console command your way through the game very fast. and your “Vanilla Alterac Valley” is not mine so who is correct?

I said “the vast majority” would have conjured 1.5 AV in their minds when you asked them which version of AV they wanted.

You’re free to have your own opinion. But you may be the only one I have seen who is actively arguing for 1.12 AV. I certainly have not seen anyone else.

hmmmm Most epople I play with are enjoying the current version so your “vast majority” is mostly forum complaints and your group of friends. Like any complaints department you only hear 1 end of the argument since if someone was happy they wouldnt be complaining about it and would be out enjoying it. I hope there are more people playing wow currently than sitting on the forums complaining about 1 aspect lol. I am saying that if anyone believed that they were getting 1.5 AV with classic or that patches would come as they did in vanilla is very silly.

This is absolutely not true. Both sides got Crusader Aura in TBC. That was a 100% wash on both sides.

It was moved back because it was clearly unfairly positioned. They combined the AV map changes with other changes to AV because it makes sense to batch changes of something together.

I would love to hear from other people who actively wanted 1.12 AV.

But it seems like the consensus before the game launched is that people most certainly did not want 1.12 AV. /Shrug.

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you literally agreed to my statement of its forum complainers. So if both forums has 0 conversations and only 1 post per account then you have around 4000 players. I hope Classic has more than 4000 players currently or we are in trouble…

The first post has 1400 people hearting it. Good luck getting that many people agreeing on literally anything else. But please, I am open to seeing posts about people actively wanting 1.12 AV.

again agreeing to my post…did you read it? I said you always get complaints more than compliments lol people who are enjoying it are playing it instead of sitting on forums. so if we compare people playing to people on forums…

Oh, I understand the argument you’re trying to make. “Your evidence doesn’t matter because its a complaint on the forums.”

But please, find me testimonials of people who wanted 1.12AV, they must exist…because if there is one thing people like to do more than complain on the forums, its argue…I am sure it should not be too hard to find if it exists.

my argument is that 1.12 is here and it was always 1.12 and believing it was going to be some fairy mixture of all your subjective parts of Vanilla is silly. The moment I say the announcement I had normal expectations and its not Blizzards fault you expected some weird amalgamation of a 15 year old game. Proof in the pudding we have 1.12 game client so its 1.12 AV. This was always the plan and its the current way it is.

My argument was no one wanted 1.12 AV…you seemed to be disagreeing with me and I am trying to figure out why. Expecting 1.12 has nothing to do with what the players wanted though. You’re conflating expectations with desires again. You can want 1.5 AV while fully expecting 1.12 to be what you’re getting.

This is exactly what we got though…we got 1.12 talents, itemization, debuff limit etc in pre 1.12 content. The weird amalgam is exactly what happened.

I am saying that 1.12 was known and expected and believing otherwise is silly. When I say the classic announcement I thought well its going to be 1.12 with maybe raid entrances locked for a month or 2. Believing you are going to get 1.5 this but 1.4 talents, and 1.12 patch balancing, and items that evolve through the game is very silly. This was never a thing and someone believing otherwise was their own issue.

I want my 1.5 AV with Itemization that happened as Vanilla but I dont want some talents since they broke the game but can we also have balancing and tuning so every spec is viable why cant I have the Vanilla I had in mind?

What does expectations have anything to do with what the players wanted though? I am willing, for the sake of argument, to accept that it is silly to have expected 1.5 (even though i think it was perfectly reasonable for them to expect that was a possibility.)

Even if they expected 1.12, they could still WANT 1.5…and it does seem like the vast majority of players wanted that version of AV instead of this one.

So, back on topic…


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I genuinely wonder why you are still engaging that guy.

Zyrius did. Unless that is his alt you are arguing with.

He seemed to have an honest opinion and seemed actually willing to have a conversation about it…he wasn’t belligerent or combative. I saw no reason to really stop…sure we wern’t really getting anywhere, but it seemed like it was in good faith.

No, he has been consistently arguing past you.