Alterac Valley Proposal (for those wanting 1.5 and those wanting 1.12.1 versions)

Since we’re getting a somewhat strange Frankenstein (here by referred to as Frankenclient) vanilla WoW (built off the modern WoW client to replicate the 1.12.1 patch except for content unlock schedules), maybe having the ability to queue for both the 1.12.1 (since honor farmers wanting rank 14 will avoid AV like the plague if it’s the 1.5 version) and a slightly modified 1.5 version. If they implement server only BGs until a certain point, the slightly modified 1.5 version should be the only cross-realm or cross battlegroup queueing instance (to ensure viability of 1.5.0 AV instance creation across all servers because of honor farmers avoiding it).

The proposed changes are from subsequent patches which do NOT alter the core or heart of 1.5 Alterac Valley. Winteraxe Trolls, Korrak, gnolls, and the Syndicate will all be in tact. Only changes that specifically alter this special instanced version of Alterac Valley will be discussed in the list of small changes. The small changes are mostly bug/exploit fixes.

Patch 1.6.0

  • Each team will now gain additional bonus honor if their towers are not destroyed by the end of the map. The more towers that remained intact, the more honor received.
  • If you manage to keep your faction’s Captain alive for the duration of a battle, you will be granted extra points upon victory.
  • Several Alterac Valley vendor items are now bind on acquire.
  • Fixed a bug that sometimes prevented the Alliance team from receiving honor for destroying towers.
  • Fixed a bug that was not awarding Horde credit for owning a mine at the end of a game.

Patch 1.7.0

  • In the Battlegrounds, you will now automatically be resurrected by Spirit Healers unless you choose to decline.
  • Alterac Valley now correctly rewards honor for owning graveyards at the end of the game.
  • Fixed range check for removing insignia from players in Battlegrounds.
  • Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.
  • Entering a battleground now resets the timer for the AFK flag. This should prevent players being kicked by the AFK timer moments after they enter the Battleground instance.
  • Using the /who command while in a Battleground instance will now only display players in your instance.
  • Alterac Valley Spring Water now has a minimum level of 55.

Patch 1.8.0

  • In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).
  • The minimum number of players required to start a battle in Alterac Valley has been lowered to 20 (the maximum is still 40).
  • Several terrain changes were made to fix some geometry exploits as well as to adjust for the new graveyard mechanic.
  • There is now a portcullis at the end of each of the entrance tunnels inside Alterac Valley. They will rise two minutes into the battle.
    ***Special note: Patch 1.8.0 featured the removal of the quests associated with Korrak the Bloodrager. The quests were originally obtainable from NPCs located in the non-instanced world. In this slightly modified version, these quests would need to be added back to different NPCs in this special instanced - probably located at Dun Baldar and Frostwolf Hold. Additional NPCs should not be created, rather, NPCs offering quests already could have the appropriate quests added.

Patch 1.10.0

  • Flavor items from player loot in Alterac Valley will now stack and can be sold for a small value. These are items like Documents from Boomstick Imports, Worn Running Shoes, etc.
  • Tower Banners in Alterac Valley can no longer be used through walls.

I anticipate that some of these changes will happen regardless because of Frankenclient. For example, the Patch 1.10.0 bug fix “Tower Banners in Alterac Valley can no longer be used through walls.” likely does not exist as a possibility with Frankenclient (since the bug is likely non-existent in Frankenclient without having to specifically try and fix it).

There was one other change from Patch 1.9.3 that I thought could be considered:

  • The default graveyards in Alterac Valley for each side were moved further up the tunnels away from the battleground exit. This should prevent accidentally leaving the battleground.

It’s been too long for me to remember the details of how drastically the graveyard was moved or if it would provide an undue advantage to either side rather than prevent accidentally leaving AV.

To queue for this special version of Alterac Valley, either add an additional dialogue option to the Alterac Valley Battlemaster to queue for “Historic Alterac Valley” or create a separate battlemaster to queue at. The adjective can be changed as appropriate. I think this could be an amicable solution that does not harm any players, give undue advantages to either side that were nonexistent at the time, or require significant development resource time. It grants access to 1.12.1 AV for honor farmers/1.12.1 purists and to a bug/exploit fixed 1.5 AV for veteran players (such as myself)/players wanting to experience the epic feel of a true battle with deadly NPCs, landmines, air assaults, ground assaults, third party NPC dangers, and objectives galore.

Any thoughts on this proposed system? My goal is to not lose the ability to participate in 1.5 AV OR 1.12.1 AV - simply provide an option. This is a somewhat unique system in classic as there were DRASTIC changes made to AV from 1.5 to 1.12.1. Some people greatly prefer 1.5 and some people greatly prefer 1.12.1. If you have an suggestions on how to improve the ideas I presented, please respond. If you’re in favor, please respond with why you’re in favor. If you’re not in favor, please respond with why you’re not in favor.

Note: A significant portion of this text I created in a reply to another thread. However, I believe due to the vast difference in idea that I presented compared to the original poster, it warranted a separate post to receive appropriate consideration. Thanks all!


Or they could just stick with one version and just enjoy that we are playing classic in the first place. :thinking:


We will be playing a /version/ of classic. We will not be playing through classic from 1.1.0/1.1.1 to 1.12.1 clients. The version that we will be playing is not even a new server 1.12.1. There will be differences regardless of attempts to eliminate the differences between the Frankenclient and 1.12.1. 1.12.1 could be played on a somewhat low end computer from 2004/2005 on dial-up. Due to client differences (32 bit vs 64 bit) and server differences, this won’t be possible.

Honestly, with the proposal that I’ve given. I can’t see any harm for any player.

I’m not sure why people’s reactions to different ideas is always to split the player base, but it’ll never be healthy for any server.

Compromise and consensus my friends. We’re adults now.

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It splits up populations, that’s a major issue. If the majority of people want 1.12 AV then that means 1.5 av will be dead, and vice versa. ESPECIALLY is people want their ‘no crz’ bgs. With this logic we should also make a separate version of classic with old talents and one for the updated ones.

In a perfect world, I would prefer running classic exactly like vanilla patch, by patch exactly. But I know this isn’t whats going to happen and I am okay with that. Which people should also use that mentality to be okay with whatever version of AV we get.

Although it would cause a split within a more minor area of the game, I’m not sure the consequence would be significant. During vanilla, I started on a day 1 “high pop” server. I can’t remember more than three instances of AV at any one singular point in time, from release of 1.5 to 1.12.1. I can understand this concern, but I personally feel it is of minimal consequence (especially if it were moved to a cross-realm queue exclusively for those who want to participate in it).

Of note, this is an attempt at compromise for both parties. It maintains availability of both versions and provides no benefit to either party. It does not shrink the world or anything in that regard. The comparison to old and new talents having entirely separate servers is non-sequitur. The proposed system is not anywhere near a server wide split. It also does not create a systematic advantage/disadvantage (relatively, talent revamps resulted in higher efficiency/output of classes and would affect virtually all systems in the game versus an isolated subset of a server).

I will agree, I would prefer Classic to follow vanilla (in client and patch) exactly. Thanks for the feedback thus far. It’s appreciated.

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I was originally excited about the thought of Classic WoW being released SOLELY because of the thought of the original version of Alterac Valley and it’s epic battles.

I remember crazy long battles in there and the effort that each team had to put in to be victorious. Farming mats for the riders, defending the Captains, Kazzak at Snowfall, and my favorite… the shredder quest.

After my hype… I read that Blizzard plans on implementing the 1.12 trash we already have in retail… which I no longer play… because it’s total garbage. They took an epic battleground and turned it into a rush fest just like all the rest of the battlegrounds… why would you want something like that?

A separate queue would be the perfect solution… all the kids can play the 1.12 version, while the real warriors run in the 1.5 version.

Please, just give US the choice of what version we want to play, and don’t FORCE the choice on us like you did the last time around…

Giving a choice is a terrible idea. The majority merely want the fastest way to loot and will pick whatever is easier toward that goal.

There were much better AV threads you could have necro’d.