So if Horde AV cave was moved back in TBC

because of the reinforcement ticket system so that horde wouldnt get to balinda first. why dont horde start back there now? so its not a problem if its bias, one sided, and broken if there is no reinforcement system but its a big problem if there is a reinforcement system? so its ok that horde start 1/3 of the way up and get to SHGY before alliance can but once there is a reinforcement system then we can make it even and balanced for fair competition? just otherwise huh? hmmm…so, why…?

why wouldnt horde start at the bottom like alliance does top so that we can simply meet in the middle of the field of strife to either engage or strategically move around eachother? meeting at a choke leaves no room for strategy…this map makes no sense. i mean, does anyone ACTUALLY know the reason horde start 1/3 of the way up?

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It was moved in TBC only because horde got paladins and crusader aura, which gave the horde 20% more of an already short field. Full stop.

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Short answer, no changes.

Long answer. First, they didn’t move it because of reinforcements they moved it because it was a problem. The earlier versions of AV had tons of NPC’s and land mines and craziness, so even though the horde were closer they couldn’t take advantage of the shorter distances. The entrance location really didn’t matter.

When they removed the NPC’s, the entrance became a big problem and horde winrates began to skyrocket. They fixed the entrance as soon as they reasonably could.

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So if Horde AV cave was moved back in TBC…

It would have no effect on Classic.

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Too bad we didn’t get an earlier version of AV in Classic. You know, like thousands of posts asked for 6 months before it released.

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I would even accept Korrak’s revenge at this point, as it much closer to what AV was really like for the vast majority of vanilla.

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I pity those that claim the cave is why Alliance lose…

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The map got too big.

No the map did not grow of course, but various patches nerfed and then removed 90% of the content, it became a big empty map, with lots of running for little reason.
All that real estate, with nothing going on.

At one point the Horde spawned at the forward cave even, for a short time. (That did not bode well)

The normal Horde staring cave is a bit less than 1/5th forward.

The whole map was designed around being this big epic PVP/PVE competitive raid, the design never fared well after being gutted.
They tried to shrink the map without creating a new map.

Personally, i think they should have just said screw it, and reverted the BG back to how it was, retuned the NPCs etc for player optimizations and if most of the playbase hated it because it was too hard and took too long, too bad, there is always WSG.

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But that would’ve been negated by Ally’s getting crusader aura as well (assuming it was changed to increase movement speed in TBC)

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and after Alliance boycotted.

They need to put in a different version. I agree.

It was moved because horde were using scorched earth due to the head start. Alliance stopped queuing in large numbers when they stopped getting any bonus honor which lead to the cave being moved. It wasn’t because of resources. It was because it made one side capable of completely shutting out the other side. Strangely enough, that happens now.

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It’s hardly the only reason, but it’s certainly one factor out of several.

It is, though, probably one of the most straightforward to alter.

After the populations evened out, sure. But the horde paladin population when Crusader aura became an ability was exactly zero (at least, those who were high enough level to use it). For most of the first half of TBC, alliance had a huge advantage in level 70 paladins who could turn it on and get their whole group south faster. As the populations balanced, the starting points became a bigger issue and it was changed in 2.4, after massive alliance boycotting.

The horde have a map advantage. If you want to protest it, don’t play it. It’s unlikely to change. There isn’t much else to say at this point about it. Making repeated threads is unlikely to help.

You’re really reaching now. Paladin crusader aura and only alliance having it half of tbc? You may fool a few horde players into upvoting that nonsense but that doesn’t make it remotely true. Both factions had paladins in tbc and access to the same auras for its entirety.

Horde cave was moved because it was not fair. That’s the simple truth.

In the respawn-ticket system.

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It’s not fair in current system despite horde denial. If vanilla horde had played or attempted to play the scorched earth they are in classic, it probably would have moved back sooner. I don’t understand why horde are in such deep denial.

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Its hard to judge map balance when 25% of your team isn’t playing. Maybe it is unfair…but lets fix people not playing the game before we fix other things.

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Don’t start fabricating stats. It detracts from the discussion. My experience in AV is that alliance start off strong but once the inevitable loss of shgy happens, they concede because they know the outcome if they haven’t pushed another gy.

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10 people being AFK…from how the Alliance were describing it…didn’t seem unreasonable.

And you wonder why they lose.

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