Should Calia lead the Forsaken?

They can just pull a better option out of their butt. Calia was introduced as a mission table character. Honest to God - if they used SL to expand the crap out of her character- Voss would be a better choice.

She already is. She’s one of the first NPCs you meet when you roll an undead. She has a whole questline in Tirisfal. Compare that to Calia who has next to nothing. The first time Horde characters see her is while spying.

She’s at least had more screen time and has some semblance of character.

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Well Calia is a new character. Ish…

Both Baine and Garrosh started as small footnotes and grew to be important figures.
So its not too far fetched to think she could grow to become the next big name.

Unless there is something inherently wrong with her commanding Forsaken.
While Voss is a major character I am kind of unsure if she can fall into that leadership role.
I guess time will tell.

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The Night Elves aren’t the totality of the Alliance.

Judging how Voss still holds her with such high esteem sort of shows that Calia’s still holds a lot of respect from some of the Forsaken. All things considered, she’s probably still loved by them (in a Forsaken kind of way.)

That Ship has sailed.

That doesn’t make any sense at all. I mean, she literally IS relevant to the current war narrative. I mean, we literally had an short arc about that IN BfA…

Baine and Garrosh where the sons of major characters in Orc and Tauren lore. Calia is the sister of Arthas. He’s important in Forsaken lore - in the same way Archimonde is to Draenei and Deathwing is to Goblins. This is a detriment to her reputation not a benefit.

If she relates to the factions at all it should be as someone to bring undead nelves into the Alliance as an allied race or something similar.

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She is also the daughter of King Terenas.
He is still revered by the forsaken people.

I mean the parallels between her and the new Horde characters that popped up and took on more and more bigger roles is pretty evident.

Remember Baine after Cairne? I am sure a lot of people were collectively going “who?” For years until he got more and more scenes.

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Who, the very Forsaken that are probably on time out cause of suspicion of still being very much in cohorts with Sylvanas in the first place?

Also, Sylvanas had something material to offer the Horde… what does have Calia to offer, diplomacy with Stormwind?¿ LUL, beaten by Baine already. She has nothing to offer but trouble (I mean I don´t think the surviving Lordaeronian refugees will look with positive eyes her alignment with the undead monsters and the live monsters that torched the Night Elves 2 min ago).

Dinasty that caused the gross undead issue in the first place. It was already moronic that apparent “warm hearted sentimentality” regarding Terenas et al that devs put on the Forsaken lore background (I mean, seriously? if it was the incompetence and idiocy of Terenas the thing that let the Cult of the Damned grow and destroy the kingdom in the first place; if anything the Forsaken should pity at best and downright hate at worst everything related to the Menethils).

If the Forsaken are to grown up beyond their braindead cult of personality surrounding an individual, switching it to a cult of personality surrounding the family responsible for their disgrace in the first place is idiotic AF andf deffinitely NOT the way to do achieve it in the first place.

“Strongest” thematically only on bad writting… and we should be making efforts to separate from that, not continue the ridiculous cult of nostalgia that destroyed the lore post Cata in teh first place…

The Forsaken were first and foremost the victims of ARTHAS. Sylvanas weponized them, yes… but she wasn´t the one responsible for the catastrophe that hit them in the first place.

A damsel in distress despised for acting as a sellout to the enemies and a raid boss… such glorious exemplary characters.

I think I now understand why do you think Calia is such a great idea…

You mean the literal retcon that made most hardcore and faithful Forsaken posters go up in arms because of the idiocy of it? (as I mentioned already, it is already kinda stupid how they keep some sentiment of admiration over the useless and incompetent father of the monster responsible for their disgrace A.K.A. Terenas)

Voss is not the character you would want to use to properly qualify the Forsaken PoV, she literally became a 180 of her former characterization starting BfA (heck, she wasn´t even FORSAKEN at the time… she literally was a ripoff of another character from another game… and a psycho to boot).

THIS is what I´m arguing for!!! I don´t care over the ignorant retcons a mediocre writer put on her book to save face, I do care over fixing the mess she created in the first place!! and Calia is pretty much an ugly part of the mess designed with anyone but Forsaken fans in mind.

Calia is repulsive cause she came as the try-hard effort of Golden to replace Sylvanas having in mind the approval of the alliance aligned playerbase, not the actual Forsaken players and the race fans.

But it hasn´t sunken, ergo there´s still a chance to fix things (and no, not for the ally playerbase but for the actual Forsaken playerbase and the fans of the Forsaken race).

Of course we remember him… as the damsel in distress the Orcs rescued back in WCIII.

Unfortunately for him and taking BfA into account, he still is a useless damsel in distress…

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A long time ago, there was a ‘What’s your Ideal Calia’ thread started by Grandblade that explored how Calia could be palpable to the Forsaken. Many replies showed incompatibility as they currently stand, something I agreed with in my own post.

I still believe all of these sentiments hold true and that Calia is incompatible with the Forsaken.

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I know more about the Forsaken than you. Reverence for the Terenas dynasty isn’t even in orbit of a theme for any of their quests or stories.

This idea shows a critical misunderstanding of the Forsaken.

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She is a menace from a literary PoV… if she “fixes” them, who is to say they truly evolved from their cult of personality ways?

No, they have to realize the error of their ways on their own time and effort, not magically by a self insert character with 0 relatability to the race.

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Yeah. You seem pretty mad and I don’t know if you are conflating your own dislikes with the Forsaken’s.

Arthas was the son of king Terenas but the forsaken still made a monument to him.
There is no good reason she would be reviled as you claim.

Secondly the Horde needs all the people it can get after their civil war especially where peace with the Alliance is concerned.
Baine is your Andiun and Calia can be your Jaina.

Honestly everything you object to there is a precedent for it.

Ps. Its hard to reply to two people on the phone.

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I’m not against Calia as Forsaken Queen, honestly. I think I’d even enjoy it.

But I come from a background of loving Lordaeronian lore - the human and undead campaigns of Warcraft 3 got me super into the narrative of WoW as a whole. In that regard, I view the Forsaken as a tragedy, one that can yet be redeemed. They’re terrible victims of a great evil, and with their free will they’re walking the razor’s edge between the humans they once were, and the Scourge the Lich King wanted them to be. In that regard, I approve of Calia, giving the Forsaken a new direction and all. Hell, I run an RP guild with that exact focus.

But it’s worth remembering that a lot of people play the Forsaken for the evil aesthetic. Blight-flinging zombie corpses who yell “death to the living” and want nothing more than to destroy their enemies and dominate the world.

Forsaken are a diverse race, and I totally get why Calia is controversial. A lot of Forsaken don’t want to lose their race’s “evil” aesthetic and go straight back to “Lightforged” Forsaken Calia, being all goody-goody. I get it, and so I don’t necessarily advocate for Calia to become queen. We need a leader who unites the Forsaken for ALL that they are.

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starting with Thrall and ending with Voljin the Horde and Alliance has already been in neutral contact to establish mutually beneficial trade, if anything the BFA Horde Vs Alliance sub plot was probably the weakest and most shoehorned part of the current expansion as a whole. it had no real build up, no ties to a prior expansion, and even made a few characters act 180 degrees contrary to their nature/over arching goals all in the name of plot contrivance, the real slap in the face for the players is the fact that we’re to believe the “War” should still be going at this point. obviously some conflicts are still going on in small localized skirmishes, but it’d be more like the current afghan civil war in Iraq rather than a full blown world war II or any other global scale conflict. Obviously the “warmongering” portion of the Horde doesn’t just go away, but it’s far from “dominating” the faction as a whole as Varok and the other’s response to Gallywix prior to his plan and their expressed disgust after the burning of Teldrassil showed.

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No. I’m literally talking about Voss still showing respect for Calia.
Not whatever nonsense you just spouted.

Yeah, I see now you’re too irrational to discuss this.

Fixing things is what we’re discussing. The Forsaken are a broken, lost-in-the-darkness race and has been since their inception. The have two choices: Stay that way and sink below the seas of obscurity or try to way a NEW path, one that doesn’t lead to their inevitable self-destruction.

And that means making some compromises.

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  • A reformation of Forsaken society, which at this point has been nothing but a destructive influence on the world, with Blight and everything.
  • A more pacifistic leader who does not seek war to expand her own forces.
  • A leader who actually cares about her people and doesn’t use them as “arrows in her quiver”, simple tools to fulfill her will.

If I was a Horde leader who didn’t want to murder every last Forsaken, she’d seem a great choice to keep them in line, honestly.

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What for about the 5 minutes before somebody shanks her or sprays her with an acid gun?

I don’t think so.

Which was already bad storytelling in the first place. Under any semi coherent narrative, the Forsaken should have despised Terenas for his role of useless uncaring monacrh that let a dangerous cult destroy the nation in the first place. It was his innefective ruling the thing that allowed the coming of Arthas as a monstruous Death Knight.

As I said before: pity on the best case, and pure hate on the worst case. That´s what that family deserved as a coherent response (heck, the French monarchy irl on the Revolution got waaay more hate for less damages caused to the people than Forsaken would have to bill to Terenas et al Menethil).

She literally lived happily and without a care for their plight and issues right next door FOR YEARS (her ahem “honeymoon”… when she lived in Southshore without any care regarding Lordaeron and the mess her dearest brother made). How do you think any self respecting individual would feel over a woman claiming to “care very, very much for them!!!”… years later after the whole traumatic issue happened? Oh, and demanding to be their Queen and absolute ruler to boot?

That claim deserve toi be received with laughs… but then again Calia is basically a Golden self insert that needed a complete retconing of Forsaken lore to work in the story in the first place, so…

Calia is useless for the inmediate cease of hostilities the Forsaken need (A.K.A. cease fire with the Nelves and the Worgen). The Horde already has Anduin backing up Baine, so she doesn´t bring anyhting relevant to the faction -appart from more nostalgia worship for some players… cause “muh Menethils!!!”… blegh. Just like Belves don´t need a king, Forsaken don´t need another culto of personality surrounding an hypocritical woman either.

Baine is so awful he kinda already fulfills both places, we don´t need more Alliance flavored characters telling us what to do, tyvm.

Bad writting precedent… the idea is to you know… stop with those ASAP?

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Not truth. Horde Priests collaborated with her in Legion.

The writing is on the wall Imho and has been since Sylvanas was forced out, and Calia became undead. She will be the racial leader eventually in all likelihood. You may dislike that but for as many that want to play evildoers, as many want the story to move forward.

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He refused to quarantine his people because he felt they’d suffered enough, and didn’t deserve to become prisoners in their own lands. Then, he sent his own son to investigate the rumours and deal with them. I’d say he was quite proactive about caring for his people throughout the process, even if he made some bad choices with hindsight. He certainly wasn’t negligent.

From a living, human perspective, Southshore was all that was left. Calia likely also had a lot of guilt over what her brother became. Can’t say she had a holiday, that’s for sure.

If anything her capacity to forgive the Forsaken who took her family away is quite inpsiring.

What retcon? Forsaken lore wasn’t retconned by Calia’s existence. A retcon is the adaptation/change of old lore. The fact that an undead can exist harmoniously with the Light is new lore - that occured under very specific circumstances of resurrection. I admit I found it a bit odd, but there’s been Light-using Forsaken before. Light-infused Forsaken are simply a new piece of lore, a new direction.

I agree. But a faction leader is important, I think, for them to be represented in a narrative. The councils never get as much screentime. I’d actually love to see a constitutional monarchy for the Forsaken. Crown a King or Queen, but have their power checked by a new Desolate Council, to prevent a new Cult of Personality like Sylvanas’

Baine not being evil doesn’t make him Alliance focused. He’s a very standard, good, Tauren.

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Honestly I would have liked Calia on the side of the Alliance imo its just more Horde faction stealing things from Alliance but my mind cannot reconcile why the Alliance is not calling for a crusade to eradicate the forsaken specifically out of Azeroth.

They have by far been the most maniacal actors in this farce of a war.
Honestly Calia taking over is the only coherent way I can imagine for everyone to chill the F out.

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All this said though, Blizzard has actually stated that Calia will not lead the Forsaken.

I actually fear far worse for the Forsaken. We’re going to get Vol’jined. We’re going to be landless and leaderless, and just sorta become some short, rotten orcs from Orgrimmar. I reckon they’re going to just ignore the Forsaken entirely now, and that friggen sucks.

Eh I disagree. The Forsaken are, for all intents and purposes, what’s left of the humans of Lordaeron. If anything we should have gotten MORE significant Lordaeronian characters. I would’ve loved if we’d raised Uther the Lightbringer as undead, and made him one of ours haha.

But we literally only got Nathanos. Only significant Lordaeronian to hang out with the Lordaeronian race. So, RIP.

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