Seal Twisting SoC + SoR doable in Vanilla?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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***FULL CREDIT TO SLAYTON***

seal twisting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5YpDd4z7gw

So, was it possible to Seal Twist during Vanilla with Seal of Command + Seal of Righteousness?

Only Blizzard knows!

Seal Twisting 101
You swap seals when your swing animation, of any sorts, happens. Even if it isn’t a seal of command proc you can swap seals and still have SoJ proc off your white attack with this method. Seal of Command MUST be your starting seal, from there you can swap seals to any of the other seals that are procs. However, the only ones that would serve a high benefit is Seal of Justice, and for those lucky souls, Seal of Blood.

Seal of Command has a 1 sec internal cool down, also the reason it wont proc off of windfury or reckoning twice. These mechanics where put in place because before you could swing with a white attack and then your seal of command could be out of range, so they put them closer together, and this was their method.

Exploiting or creative use of mechanics? No one knows except Blizzard, but this is a make-shift substitute for a spell interrupt that is long over due.

TL;DR:

1. put on seal of command

2. right as your swing animation happens (normal, socomm proc, or crit) swap seals to SoJ or SoB

3. Profit
http://web.archive.org/web/20080706232318/http://www.retpaladin.com/warcraft/2008/05/how-to-seal-twist/

What exactly is seal twisting?
It's using 2 seals at one time per swing.

What combination of seals can you use per seal twist?
Anything that has seal of command with it (works effectively with seal of justice and seal of blood specifically).
Note: It's not a 100% proc rate, it's only when seal of command procs.

How do you do it?

First you need to get a swing timer mod, I personally suggest Quartz ( but any mod with one will work)

Second.. You must have seal of command up before you attempt to do this.

Third.. Right before you swing ( about .1 seconds before you swing) you activate another seal such as blood or justice and you will get an extra seal proc if your seal of command procs

Basically it'l go like this Seal of command -> Right before swing cast Seal of (whatever) - > seal of command procs + an extra seal procs.

You must have command up in order to do this, you cannot twist from seal of justice to seal of command or seal of blood to command.. it has to be command to blood or command to justice.

The thing with this is, it uses alot of mana but it's definantly worth if your horde and you get it to proc.

Why? You will get 2 blood procs and one command proc.. You get 1 seal of blood proc from your white swing and since your command proc counts as melee, you will also get another blood proc. So basically White swing + seal of command + seal of blood + seal of blood = pwnage (in one swing).
http://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-guides/153093-how-paladin-seal-twist.html
1 Like
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Seal Twisting in the Combat Log:

Faptamerica
June 20th, 2008 - 10:10 am
20:53′52.859 Faptamerica gains Seal of Command
20:53′54.093 Faptamerica gains 1 Attack from Windfury Attack
20:53′54.093 Faptamerica’s Swing hits Brutallus for 1166 Physical damage (glancing)
20:53′54.453 Faptamerica gains Seal of Blood
20:53′54.453 Faptamerica gains Windfury Attack
20:53′54.546 Faptamerica’s Seal of Command hits Brutallus for 1661 Holy damage
20:53′54.546 Faptamerica’s Swing hits Brutallus for 1393 Physical damage (glancing)
20:53′54.671 Faptamerica gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
20:53′55.328 Faptamerica’s Seal of Blood crits Brutallus for 1858 Holy damage
20:53′55.328 Faptamerica’s Seal of Blood crits Brutallus for 1907 Holy damage
20:53′55.687 Faptamerica’s Seal of Blood hits Brutallus for 633 Holy damage (201 resisted)

BE > Ally pallies in raids kthx?!
http://web.archive.org/web/20080706232318/http://www.retpaladin.com/warcraft/2008/05/how-to-seal-twist/
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[Paladin] Seal twisting mechanic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF8Wqe6Tzss

[Paladin] Seal twisting mechanic - extended version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygvWHckU6AQ

Seal Twisting on a private Vanilla Server (Feenix)
https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4651925/3533243/d0c3ea12-07cc-11e4-9cc4-32e56ac1e9a6.jpg
- using Seal of the Crusader to boost SoC dmg

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4651925/3533244/dcb05928-07cc-11e4-9879-47879883a5b3.jpg
- having both SoC and Seal of Justice proc on the same swing
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It was considered creative use of game mechanics (not exploiting) in BC.

Not sure about vanilla, I didn't have paladins on my faction back then :P But I know Blizzard had no problem with it in BC.
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You can also weave righteousness with command by tracking procs. There is a limit on command ppm, so you can make the most of it by swapping out.

Requires you either just get a feel for it so it becomes reflex or write a mod to track command and show % chance of proc.

It's of note, there is no seal of blood in Vanilla, that was a TBC blood elf ability.
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If you can pull it off then go ahead.

The only problems I can see with it is a massive mana drain as we don't have the same BC mana back from heals talent and no seal of blood to get those heals from.
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12/12/2017 12:20 AMPosted by Harland
You can also weave righteousness with command by tracking procs. There is a limit on command ppm, so you can make the most of it by swapping out.

Requires you either just get a feel for it so it becomes reflex or write a mod to track command and show % chance of proc.

It's of note, there is no seal of blood in Vanilla, that was a TBC blood elf ability.


SoC PPM is not a limit, it's a calculation of percentage.

When PPM is listed on an ability, that's not a limit on how often it can proc; it's a way for you to calculate the percentage chance per hit. Divide the PPM by your attacks per minute to calculate your chance on each hit. Once the chance is calculated, it works the same as any other %chance.
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12/12/2017 12:20 AMPosted by Harland
You can also weave righteousness with command by tracking procs. There is a limit on command ppm, so you can make the most of it by swapping out.

Requires you either just get a feel for it so it becomes reflex or write a mod to track command and show % chance of proc.

It's of note, there is no seal of blood in Vanilla, that was a TBC blood elf ability.


on private servers, SoR won't proc off of another yellow attack only white, so I could never get it to work and I couldn't find evidence that SoR should be flagged to proc off of both white + yellow

hopefully with this classic forum now open up we can get some kind of blizzard confirmation one way or the other for Seal Twisting and +Fire/Nature proc items scaling with spell dmg for example.
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12/12/2017 12:52 AMPosted by Curruptress
If you can pull it off then go ahead.

The only problems I can see with it is a massive mana drain as we don't have the same BC mana back from heals talent and no seal of blood to get those heals from.


The trick was to use rank 1 Seal of Command with Seal Twisting not max rank SoC so it wasn't as painful on the mana bar but yes, having the /wrist part to Seal of Blood definitely helped with the mana regen due to having the healers keep HoTs on you.
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If it was in BC then it probably was in Vanilla to, the game mechanics and engine were practically identical.
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12/12/2017 12:37 PMPosted by Kinetics
If it was in BC then it probably was in Vanilla to, the game mechanics and engine were practically identical.


Yes, back on Feenix I was able to concretely prove that the mechanics for Seal Twisting were indeed there all along since patch 1.11 when Seal of Command received its 0.5 second delay:

https://github.com/FeenixServerProject/Archangel_2.4.3_Bugtracker/issues/1320

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4651925/3533242/ccac4500-07cc-11e4-85b9-029a86177c2e.jpg

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4651925/3533243/d0c3ea12-07cc-11e4-9cc4-32e56ac1e9a6.jpg

https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4651925/3533244/dcb05928-07cc-11e4-9879-47879883a5b3.jpg

Since Patch 1.11, Seal of Command proc will have approximately 0.5 second delay before the animation begins and the Holy damage is incurred, instead of having the proc occur instantly with the swing of the attack. This is considered a good change, since if the normal swing is a critical strike and Vengeance is triggered, the Seal of Command proc will be affected by the buff.
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Seal_of_Command_(old)?oldid=1432430

The only unknown factor was whether Seal of Righteousness is able to proc off of both the white Auto-Attack and the yellow Seal of Command attack.
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Only official Blizz devs could confirm you that.
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12/12/2017 12:56 PMPosted by Rongente
Only official Blizz devs could confirm you that.


Yep so /fingers crossed here cuz i've been trying for years :)
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yes. seal twisting was avalible in vanilla, but devs talked against it when it became popular.

one powerful technique is to get libram of fervor to further boost Seal of command's hit when you successfully switch to Sotc.
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I remember hearing it doesn't work for seal of righteousness but can for seal of justice.
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I am thinking of going Paladin for Classic; so Blizzard please clear-up this information!
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I know this is a bit off topic, but I was wondering what you thought of this spec, Theloras:

Reckoning PVP

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sxxdZVGz0jbxZVbhzb

It's a jack of all trades build, it's probably garbage, but you get SoComm and Consecration, with some talents for healing. This spec would use a Two Hander and aim for some Intellect for off healing.

PoJ and Hammer, of course.

I figure, if Reckoning is so good, might as well spec a bit into Holy to offheal as well.
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12/12/2017 06:42 PMPosted by Rámzá
I know this is a bit off topic, but I was wondering what you thought of this spec, Theloras:

Reckoning PVP

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sxxdZVGz0jbxZVbhzb

It's a jack of all trades build, it's probably garbage, but you get SoComm and Consecration, with some talents for healing. This spec would use a Two Hander and aim for some Intellect for off healing.

PoJ and Hammer, of course.

I figure, if Reckoning is so good, might as well spec a bit into Holy to offheal as well.


I would recommend this spec instead - 11/26/14 - and its one that personally used to full effect in both PvE and PvP. Given the choice, I would take it over all else in order to cover all the bases for both PvE and PvP with our strengths and limiting our weaknesses.

Blessing of Sanctuary AoE tanker in PvE + Reck Bomb God in PvP
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVGt0szxZVbhkb

Put up Judgement of wisdom and then have your guild craft you a Nightfall and every single one of your casters will love you.

Most guilds also don't bother with Blessing of Sanctuary when the fact of the matter is that after Blessing of Kings, it's the 2nd most powerful buff in the game as it provides a mini defensive stance to all 40 players in the raid plus provides boatloads more +threat/damage to the tanks with 35 holy dmg for each block.

So to recap...

- AoE tanker for your guild in PvE raids
- AoE tank/farming machine in either solo or 5/10mans
- Melee destroying GOD in PvP
- Can provide either BoK or BoSanc in PvE or PvP
- If you get Nightfall, you can provide max uptime for +15% spell dmg debuff in raids with SoR/JoR
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12/12/2017 06:42 PMPosted by Rámzá
I know this is a bit off topic, but I was wondering what you thought of this spec, Theloras:

Reckoning PVP

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sxxdZVGz0jbxZVbhzb

It's a jack of all trades build, it's probably garbage, but you get SoComm and Consecration, with some talents for healing. This spec would use a Two Hander and aim for some Intellect for off healing.

PoJ and Hammer, of course.

I figure, if Reckoning is so good, might as well spec a bit into Holy to offheal as well.


I would recommend this spec instead - 11/26/14 - and its one that personally used to full effect in both PvE and PvP. Given the choice, I would take it over all else in order to cover all the bases for both PvE and PvP with our strengths and limiting our weaknesses.

Blessing of Sanctuary AoE tanker in PvE + Reck Bomb God in PvP
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVGt0szxZVbhkb

Put up Blessing of wisdom and then have your guild craft you a Nightfall and every single one of your casters will love you.

Most guilds also don't bother with Blessing of Sanctuary when the fact of the matter is that after Blessing of Kings, it's the 2nd most powerful buff in the game as it provides a mini defensive stance to all 40 players in the raid plus provides boatloads more +threat/damage to the tanks with 35 holy dmg for each block.

So to recap...

- AoE tanker for your guild in PvE raids
- AoE tank/farming machine in either solo or 5/10mans
- Melee destroying GOD in PvP
- Can provide either BoK or BoSanc in PvE or PvP
- If you get Nightfall, you can provide max uptime for +15% spell dmg debuff in raids with SoR/JoR


Nice. This looks like a decent leveling spec too. SoComm and PoJ at 22. Then I can either go for Reckoning asap, or grab Consecration and try tanking early.

Thanks, Thel
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

I would recommend this spec instead - 11/26/14 - and its one that personally used to full effect in both PvE and PvP. Given the choice, I would take it over all else in order to cover all the bases for both PvE and PvP with our strengths and limiting our weaknesses.

Blessing of Sanctuary AoE tanker in PvE + Reck Bomb God in PvP
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVGt0szxZVbhkb

Put up Blessing of wisdom and then have your guild craft you a Nightfall and every single one of your casters will love you.

Most guilds also don't bother with Blessing of Sanctuary when the fact of the matter is that after Blessing of Kings, it's the 2nd most powerful buff in the game as it provides a mini defensive stance to all 40 players in the raid plus provides boatloads more +threat/damage to the tanks with 35 holy dmg for each block.

So to recap...

- AoE tanker for your guild in PvE raids
- AoE tank/farming machine in either solo or 5/10mans
- Melee destroying GOD in PvP
- Can provide either BoK or BoSanc in PvE or PvP
- If you get Nightfall, you can provide max uptime for +15% spell dmg debuff in raids with SoR/JoR


Nice. This looks like a decent leveling spec too. SoComm and PoJ at 22. Then I can either go for Reckoning asap, or grab Consecration and try tanking early.

Thanks, Thel


No worries - enjoy!

Also, don't forget using a /sit macro when either PvPing or when AoE farming to gain both Redoubt and Reckoning procs.

With Retribution Aura + BoSanc up on yourself and Redoubt proc'd, you will do 35 Holy dmg on each block plus 20 Holy dmg from your aura as well - you will literally mow everything down and even faster if you also use Consecration as well.