/bump for goodness and hopefully some Blue responses :)
12/12/2017 12:06 AMPosted by AryxymarakiIt was considered creative use of game mechanics (not exploiting) in BC.
Maybe you meant by the community, but not by Blizzard. Totem Twisting, Seal Twisting, and also Power Shifting were considered to not be the intent behind the abilities/talents that allowed these three things to exist. Blizzard nerfed or flat out removed the ability to do any of them.
Calling it creative use is just trying to put a nice spin on a mechanic that was deemed to not belong in the game.
02/27/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Banana12/12/2017 12:06 AMPosted by AryxymarakiIt was considered creative use of game mechanics (not exploiting) in BC.
Maybe you meant by the community, but not by Blizzard. Totem Twisting, Seal Twisting, and also Power Shifting were considered to not be the intent behind the abilities/talents that allowed these three things to exist. Blizzard nerfed or flat out removed the ability to do any of them.
Calling it creative use is just trying to put a nice spin on a mechanic that was deemed to not belong in the game.
No, the difference between 'creative use' and 'exploit' is 'will you get banned for it'.
Blizzard patched them out, but did not ban anyone for them. Just because they patched them out doesn't mean it wasn't intended at the time (although it wasn't intended), and just because it wasn't intended doesn't mean it was an exploit.
Windfury Totem was removed from the game at some point, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a part of Vanilla just because Blizzard later made a terrible decision.
02/27/2018 09:51 PMPosted by Banana12/12/2017 12:06 AMPosted by AryxymarakiIt was considered creative use of game mechanics (not exploiting) in BC.
Maybe you meant by the community, but not by Blizzard. Totem Twisting, Seal Twisting, and also Power Shifting were considered to not be the intent behind the abilities/talents that allowed these three things to exist. Blizzard nerfed or flat out removed the ability to do any of them.
Calling it creative use is just trying to put a nice spin on a mechanic that was deemed to not belong in the game.
no blizzard was on record as saying it was "creative use of game mechanics"
otherwise as Aryxymaraki said, "Anyone using the technique would have been banned...period."
the entire reason it existed in the first place was that Seal of Command got a 0.5 sec delay in patch 1.11 - therefore the mechanic for seal twisting was there the whole time - but wasn't discovered until TBC by Slayton
shameless bump for gudness!
10/30/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Thelorasshameless bump for gudness!
The following is not seal twisting in the way you're thinking of it, but in massaging the PPM behavior of Seal of Command.
SoC is PPM in late vanilla.
You can track your PPM and mix SoR with it to maximize; this is what the 2 ret paladin in my guild did to increase their contribution in damage while maintaining either light, or wisdom (depending)
PPM starts from first activation if I remember right, so off the first Seal of Command activation you can swap almost immediately for 1 or 2 melee swings and swap back for almost a sure proc.
This is something I learned form the PVE ret's and applied to PVP, it worked ridiculously well.
Something I never did bother to test and wish I had was does different ranks impact the PPM? are they their own PPM? THAT's a big question and could really open up a whole new can of awesome.
10/30/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Härländ10/30/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Thelorasshameless bump for gudness!
The following is not seal twisting in the way you're thinking of it, but in massaging the PPM behavior of Seal of Command.
SoC is PPM in late vanilla.
You can track your PPM and mix SoR with it to maximize; this is what the 2 ret paladin in my guild did to increase their contribution in damage while maintaining either light, or wisdom (depending)
PPM starts from first activation if I remember right, so off the first Seal of Command activation you can swap almost immediately for 1 or 2 melee swings and swap back for almost a sure proc.
This is something I learned form the PVE ret's and applied to PVP, it worked ridiculously well.
Something I never did bother to test and wish I had was does different ranks impact the PPM? are they their own PPM? THAT's a big question and could really open up a whole new can of awesome.
private servers specifically set SoR's flag to be able to only proc from a white attack, not a yellow - and since no one thought of using SoR or Seal Twisting in general during Vanilla, I can't find any video evidence to back up my theory crafting - hence this thread :)
10/30/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Theloras10/30/2018 04:57 PMPosted by Härländ...
The following is not seal twisting in the way you're thinking of it, but in massaging the PPM behavior of Seal of Command.
SoC is PPM in late vanilla.
You can track your PPM and mix SoR with it to maximize; this is what the 2 ret paladin in my guild did to increase their contribution in damage while maintaining either light, or wisdom (depending)
PPM starts from first activation if I remember right, so off the first Seal of Command activation you can swap almost immediately for 1 or 2 melee swings and swap back for almost a sure proc.
This is something I learned form the PVE ret's and applied to PVP, it worked ridiculously well.
Something I never did bother to test and wish I had was does different ranks impact the PPM? are they their own PPM? THAT's a big question and could really open up a whole new can of awesome.
private servers specifically set SoR's flag to be able to only proc from a white attack, not a yellow - and since no one thought of using SoR or Seal Twisting in general during Vanilla, I can't find any video evidence to back up my theory crafting - hence this thread :)
intresting fact that you may have missed. That flag did exist on live but wasn't able to be properly abused till WoD specifically in timewalking thanks to the return of TAIJ's proc.Once you mixed in TF and the legendary cloak you would literally be globalling entire trash packs thanks to everything proccing SoR.
Wish i'd recorded it but thanks to my PC freezing during extended procs that wasn't going to happen.
12/11/2017 11:16 PMPosted by ThelorasBE > Ally pallies in raids kthx?!
Even without gimmicking Seal of blood on it's own was far superior to command,righteous and Vengeance. It's "down side" removed any issues whatsoever with mana management and was only detrimental on a single fight in it's entire inception from TBC to mid wrath.
10/30/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Huntsatnight10/30/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Theloras...
private servers specifically set SoR's flag to be able to only proc from a white attack, not a yellow - and since no one thought of using SoR or Seal Twisting in general during Vanilla, I can't find any video evidence to back up my theory crafting - hence this thread :)
intresting fact that you may have missed. That flag did exist on live but wasn't able to be properly abused till WoD specifically in timewalking thanks to the return of TAIJ's proc.Once you mixed in TF and the legendary cloak you would literally be globalling entire trash packs thanks to everything proccing SoR.
Wish i'd recorded it but thanks to my PC freezing during extended procs that wasn't going to happen.
TAIJ's proc + TF and the legendary cloak?
Forgive my ignorance but I stopped playing retail during the MOP beta and am unfamiliar with any of those.
10/30/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Theloras<span class="truncated">...</span>
intresting fact that you may have missed. That flag did exist on live but wasn't able to be properly abused till WoD specifically in timewalking thanks to the return of TAIJ's proc.Once you mixed in TF and the legendary cloak you would literally be globalling entire trash packs thanks to everything proccing SoR.
Wish i'd recorded it but thanks to my PC freezing during extended procs that wasn't going to happen.
TAIJ's proc + TF and the legendary cloak?
Forgive my ignorance but I stopped playing retail during the MOP beta and am unfamiliar with any of those.
Thunderfury (you will be familiar with that no doubt :p)
https://www.wowhead.com/item=102249/gong-lu-strength-of-xuen
and
https://www.wowhead.com/item=50351/tiny-abomination-in-a-jar.
During WoD SoR would autocleave anything within a certain radius.
10/30/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Huntsatnight10/30/2018 05:52 PMPosted by Theloras...
TAIJ's proc + TF and the legendary cloak?
Forgive my ignorance but I stopped playing retail during the MOP beta and am unfamiliar with any of those.
Thunderfury (you will be familiar with that no doubt :p)
https://www.wowhead.com/item=102249/gong-lu-strength-of-xuen
and
https://www.wowhead.com/item=50351/tiny-abomination-in-a-jar.
oh ok I got you now - SoR was flagged in later xpac to proc off of SPELL procs as well?!?!?
10/30/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Theloras10/30/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Huntsatnight...
Thunderfury (you will be familiar with that no doubt :p)
https://www.wowhead.com/item=102249/gong-lu-strength-of-xuen
and
https://www.wowhead.com/item=50351/tiny-abomination-in-a-jar.
oh ok I got you now - SoR was flagged in later xpac to proc off of SPELL procs as well?!?!?
Correct.
With that little combo of gear would be doing upwards of 80% of a groups damage as the tank. TF would proc cloak, which procced the trinket more (which got stacks off SoR procs too) rinse repeat. The bigger the pack, the faster it would die.
Also found this little gem of them accidentally removing the trigger limit/flag during the DS era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNYnj-lhiWs
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfXrEa3HHrk
10/30/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Huntsatnightyou would literally be globalling entire trash packs thanks to everything proccing SoR
There was another time and another item that let it do that, but I am going to keep silent about that one the off chance that I get to have fun with it again.
I am surprised no one but me seemed to never have found it. If I do get a chance to try it again, I want to try something that I couldnt before to make it work even better.
As proof, there was one raid fight (that got me banned by my guild from using my paladin ever again), where he did HALF the raid's damage with it.
10/30/2018 06:07 PMPosted by Huntsatnight10/30/2018 05:57 PMPosted by Theloras...
oh ok I got you now - SoR was flagged in later xpac to proc off of SPELL procs as well?!?!?
Correct.
With that little combo of gear would be doing upwards of 80% of a groups damage as the tank. TF would proc cloak, which procced the trinket more (which got stacks off SoR procs too) rinse repeat. The bigger the pack, the faster it would die.
Also found this little gem of them accidentally removing the trigger limit/flag during the DS era
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNYnj-lhiWs
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfXrEa3HHrk
heh i remember that bug from cataclysm lol
"working as intended"
:P
Anywho, as far as SoR being able to trigger off of both white + yellow, we will know in a few days!
10/30/2018 11:05 PMPosted by ThelorasAnywho, as far as SoR being able to trigger off of both white + yellow, we will know in a few days!
It depends on the yellow.It never triggered off any actual spells and if I remember correctly it would trigger off crusader strike. I don't think theres actually any way to trigger righty off yellow damage in classic unless it counts as a attack.
Do pallies even get another seal Pre level 20?
10/30/2018 11:17 PMPosted by HuntsatnightDo pallies even get another seal Pre level 20?
Seal of the Crusader
10/30/2018 11:43 PMPosted by Zeliek10/30/2018 11:17 PMPosted by HuntsatnightDo pallies even get another seal Pre level 20?
Seal of the Crusader
I was reading the first few posts and wondering if it is possible (or even beneficial) to "twist" SotC and SoC. If you started with SoC, then activated SotC, could you get a SoC proc and an AP buff? Would it be worth the mana?
10/31/2018 12:30 AMPosted by Feuerhuf10/30/2018 11:43 PMPosted by Zeliek...
Seal of the Crusader
I was reading the first few posts and wondering if it is possible (or even beneficial) to "twist" SotC and SoC. If you started with SoC, then activated SotC, could you get a SoC proc and an AP buff? Would it be worth the mana?
Maybe? Remember that crusade doesn't actually proc any damage, just has 40% attack speed + Ap and you lose damage by using it.
SoCom works off weapon damage and has a ppm so hitting faster with it is actually detrimental.
It worked in vanilla, but I think they might fix it now that more people actually know about it.