Not with the batching change down to 10 ms. Edit: Unless, of course they do a workaround for it, which they just did Feb 4, 2021 (you’re welcome, paladins):
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-version-1137-ptr-is-now-available/838945/169
Rets fine.
Seal twisting wasn’t used by everyone yet they still got raid spots.
Also you’re ignoring the benefits from bringing one to a raid which are substantial.
Was only effective for Blood elf in actual TBC, and seal twisting as I read it right now does not actually function in Classic WoW even with batching. (according to the forums). So with or without batching it does not really matter here because everything paladin did that was interesting like reck nukes, seal twisting, you name it, blizzard already nerfed it into the ground.
You can read here about its present state of sucking, and if this is anything to understand the way thing will be for TBC it sounds as if Seal Twisting is DoA.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/spell-batching-vs-seal-of-command-bugged-interaction/492921
From this excerpt its interesting that they batch everything and if what this fellow says is right then sounds like the batching conundrum has screwed paladin but allowed everyone else things similar to vanilla but not quite.
Ret pally in tbc was always a bring 1 of.
They provide your 3rd pally buff and a debuff if I recall that makes the boss take more crits?
Also can refresh all seals solo so the other paladins don’t have to worry about it
Yes forgot this.
No, Ret was not a bring 1. The prot paladin can maintain a judgment and the other holy can provide a 3rd blessing. A 4th hunter or lock would do 1000 more dps, which is not remotely close the crit bonus or sanc aura. Without seal twisting, a ret paladin is just not worth the slot to any serious guild. Have fun in Kara, though.
Thats a lot of min/max from someone who prolly doesnt min/max rofl…
You in the top 1%?
Or bring a 2nd holy paladin which is actually useful outside of a buff.
Hpally sucks in tbc tho, also a 1 of.
Not really lol. A healer is always useful.
Sure but the issue is when people say just bring “insert better spec here” than why even bring them and why not just bring the BEST spec instead with that mentality?
Ret is fine, it maintains all the judgments from the other pallys, it has a pretty good debuff and its a 3rd blessing…
I personally don’t understand the point of metagaming that hard. The content just doesn’t require it, and I’d rather have a person enjoying themselves than benching people or forcing them to play an entirely different spec and role.
It is.
A judgement yes, not 3 at once. Wis is great for ALL casters, Light takes some of the pressure off healers.
Yes and a ret can provide a 4th.
In full tier 6/sunwell gear maybe.
Seal twisting apparently is only worth 200 dps if played perfectly.
True.
You won’t need to drop a second holy pally till sunwell, Holy pally is THE tank healers and with the amount of multi tank fights you really can’t go wrong with two.
A prot pally can’t spec deep enough into ret for sanct aura without gimping themselves elsewhere and no tank in their right mind turns away a 12% threat increase.Not only that but it gives you the option of taking BoSanct which is great in your day to day and not useless in a raid enviroment.
At the end of the day the threat increase will improve raid dps more than another lock/hunter.
I agree with everything you have said.
I was a holy pally in tbc and wotlk, but all I did was arena which is why I’m looking forward to this again as I get to finally do the raids.
Well as a mage!
Good luck in Kara, bro. Sunwell, not so much.
Rets don’t suddenly turn into gods the second they walk through the dark portal.
I actually remember Paladins being pretty damn weak for the entire TBC expansion.
They only got good in the WOTLK pre patch.
Not sure where all this misinformation that paladins are suddenly huge dps is coming from.
I guess people read, “all specs become viable” and assume it means their suddenly going to be big pumpers, very far from the truth.
Rets will bring a ton of utility to raids in tbc, their dps is way better than classic. They’re really not that far behind other non warlock/hunter dps classes. Especially in the earlier raid tiers. There’s really no reason not to bring a ret paladin instead of a second holy paladin.
What if I told you steaming hot garbage isn’t a far fall in TBC from the regular hot garbage they already were?
Edit:
https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/?id=16127&exp=1&upl=24592
They’re pretty far behind on T5. But in T6 they do more than okay. As far as worth it for T4/5? eh. Debatable. There’s pros and cons to both but nothing would be handicapped if you waited till t6.
Seal twisting is a meme and none of the top rets even use it.