I don’t think I will ever give up on Voidform. As for the community, not when we’re in Beta and we have confirmation no overhauls will be occurring. Yes it is a disservice to the entire community, but unfortunately this is where we are. Let’s try to make the best of it.
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being complicit with how bad voidform makes you part of the problem.
nobody wants voidform. Blizzard needs to change
enough is enough… remove bad design, empower shadowpriests… who have been in the gutter for M+, pvp and anything outside of council fights for 2 expansions now.
#removevoidform
in case you havent heard or understand
#removevoidform
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This is the reason its still not fixed.
We have given blizz enough time to fix it and the track record speaks for it self. It has not been getting better as time goes by, its only been getting worse.
What argument do you have that would indicate the contrary?
When making business decisions, you have to show progress in order to keep continuing down a laid out path. Eventually if you cannot produce progress, things get scrapped. That’s just how things work.
Only time this isn’t true is when you have daddy government and its whole slue of inefficiencies and just every increasing bloat.
That’s what Void Form looks like now with its 4+ year development.
Its entire concept is bankrupt when it comes to ideas on how to fix it, you can see this by the proposed changes they laid out earlier in Alpha. That is a BIG sign that the writing is on the wall in that blizz cannot make Void Form work.
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Now you’re just being hyperbolic. There’s plenty of people who do want void form to stay. And we’ve been “in the gutter” for almost two expansions? So that explains why we were great in Emerald Nightmare, why we were great in Antorus, why we were great in Eternal Palace, and why we’re good in Nyalotha despite that raid being designed SPECIFICALLY to counter us. I’m all for having rational discussions about meaningful changes to the spec, but if you’re just screaming remove void form and not posing any good replacements, or you’re just spouting incorrect information, I and I’m sure many others have no desire to hear you out.
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We’ve known for sure that VF was problematic before BFA dropped (if you were playing the class, you knew how problematic it was after you reached 110 in Legion and started doing dailies.) Feedback seemed, to me, to be pretty clear back then, as it is right now (people are just more upset right now.)
We know that DP is NOT going to address any of the Mythic+ issues.
What is a reasonable time frame for waiting for a working fix?
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A riot is not going to make them drop everything and replace voidform on the spot in a beta, when any decision making / meeting that would need to take place for it to happen would have been literally 6 months ago.
I strongly dislike voidform, and haven’t enjoyed my priest save some choice moments where the stars aligned in M+ and raid content, but fact is. It’s not going away this expansion.
I get the worry. Sunk cost fallacy is real with voidform, and putting “more” effort into it makes it mean likely bliz will ultimately want to keep it by the time discussions begin in which it actually can be removed.
Idk I’m going to put some thoughts out on how we can move forward in the short term, but I’m waiting til we do / don’t get a pass on beta release. Either way as much as I don’t want voidform to stick around, I also want to play priest with my guild and enjoy the game. If you can’t do that while voidform exists in any capacity what so ever, then I’m sorry, but you aren’t playing priest for the next 2 years (Or wow that’s your choice).
If you wanna continue being vocal once the game goes live, and keep reminding bliz that no matter what they do, the mechanical base is something you are unhappy with. Absolutely, keep that up going into 9.1, 9.2, and you’ll be able to make yourself heard during 10.0 discussions where class reworks are likely decided.
But for the sake of the people who are likely to play the spec on SL release, and the patches of shadowlands that follow. We need to make the best of what we have.
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Our damage was scaled outside of Void Form. So that means our damage spiked up the longer you stayed in Void Form. this is what caused so many nerfs and why at base level our damage is scaled so low.
Once you unlocked the entire artifact weapons, most if not all classes were great at end of expansion as it usually goes.
This caused major nerfs because of this. Nerfs not to “borrowed powers” but nerfs to the base class. Meaning that players that haven’t gotten borrowed powers (like returning players) are even weaker then at the start of BFA when it was even worse.
All the crazy borrowed powers and the fact that priest scale out of control as each point of haste and crit is multiplied by each other, not additive.
All those positives are going away in SL.
Also keep in mind, raiding scene is the BEST you can be as a Spriest. Every other piece of content is worse off for priest. So when you compare the BEST part and say priest works, you are ignoring the rest of the game…
- PvP
- 5 mans
- World content
- and now upcoming Torghast
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so do…no one is stopping you guys. People showing and expressing how greatly frustrated they are by spreading #removevoidform are not telling you to shut up.
this thread exists so you can suggest your fixes.
I am very sure that if Blizz was looking at the forums for fixes they will find this thread and read it. I also believe that they wont read the forums but rather go to the Alpha feedback.
I’m still confused on how us shutting up= VF fixed. If we are silent then Blizz will just think they wore us out and everything is just gonna be fine.
again you guys keep seeing us as the enemy when we are just spreading more awareness on how horrible the spec is.
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Yes, borrowed power is a huge concern, I don’t recall me or anyone else stating otherwise. But to that effect, why not say “change void form” or “fix void form”? Void Form has been hot and cold specifically because they haven’t tried to fix it since they gutted the spec during Uldir. It was never addressed in any capacity. Why can’t they do that now? And again, I and I’m sure every other pro Void Form shadow priest would be fine with them bringing Shadow Orbs back, but why can’t we have both? Why is it a black or white issue with anti void form people?
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Given there are currently 30+ threads titled remove voidform or similar, and every thread suggesting anything to the contrary is divebombed by the people who made those threads and driven off topic, or just utterly drowned out. No.
I am well aware of how many people do not want voidform to stay. I am one of them. However once we are officially in beta efforts seem better placed elsewhere, at least if you still have a realistic vested interest in wanting to play shadow in shadowlands. Because JFC things are dire right now.
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Many of us have discussed this very issue at length.
But basically it comes down to this. In order to “fix” Void Form in its current iteration, it would have to loose its “identity” as a “ramp up” mechanic.
Everything is tied to that be it core rotational abilities, utility, borrowed powers etc.
But if you loose its “ramp up” then it has to become either a passive buff or active buff or in other words…
Old Shadow Form
Or
A DPS cooldown.
That’s the simple short version.
You have varying degrees of pros and cons when going that route be it passive or active buffs that I think is the main root issue that the Pro Void Form camp, Pro Shadow Orb camp and Blizz devs all seem to have differing opinions on what to do.
That’s not even including the small group of people that think the ramp up is fine and its only borrowed powers that’s causing issues. But in reality im sorry to say just ins’t that simple. There are a lot more deep issues caused with its ramp regardless how slow or fast it is or can become. So it has to go.
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I understand where you’re coming from but you’re not seeing it the way I am. Blizz is not reading the forums they might check it form time to time but highly doubt they are reading it. if they see the wall of #removevoidform they will understand people are not happy with the spec. When they go to try and fix it I promise you the first place they are going to check is the Alpha feedback not the forums. but just in the rare occasion that they do seek help from the furom they will find this thread and read it, they wont waste time checking the other #removevoidform but the wall of it will be remembered.
rather then see us as the enemy channel our frustration and keep this thread going with your suggestions on how to fix VF incase they seek for help from the forums, I highly doubt they will read it but you never know
Maybe you should reach out to alpha testers with your suggestions.
If they by some miracle open the priest forums and see 40+ remove voidform threads they wont look at anything at all.
I do not have access to the alpha, soon to be beta, forums. If I were to do or say anything it would be here. And frankly I don’t see the point after seeing how this thread turned out.
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Personally, it doesn’t bother me when you and everyone else expressing the way you want.
However, I don’t know or wouldn’t be surprised if blizzard at some point takes action and puts a stop to the wall one way or another if you can read between the lines.
That said, it could be a good thing to make them take such action as at least that’s a sign that they are aware of whats happening here and cannot ignore it.
So ill let you and everyone else play this out and see where it goes.
For the record however, I am against any # <insert w/e here> as that’s just not something I ever got acclimated to. Call me old fashion or w/e lol.
But you do you.
I’m in the camp it would be great if they just made a new spec and let Shadow plays with orbs again and make a Void Form. But again, there can be a balance, both can exist. Even if it’s through talent trees, if you spec’d to do a Devouring Plague build in M+ and did a Void Form build in raids, I think that would be a compromise that would be fair for everyone. I find it’s jumping the shark and very premature to call for the removal of void form when they haven’t tried to fix it in any capacity. Now, if they don’t fix it, and it’s terrible and we get no changes what so ever and it’s garbage well into Shadowlands, then it’d be clear they can’t make it work and it would need to be removed. And in terms of “they had all of bfa to make it work”, yes they did, but they didn’t try once. They gave us number tuning and stacked systems. Give them a chance to actually try to fix it.
its just another way to raise attention, you guys should channel it, reach out to alpha testers and discuss changes with them so they could post it on the official feedback. I really think this # can help raise awareness
I don’t think it’s about giving them a chance. Nobody here wants to let Blizzard “chance” anything. Track record should be enough to convince you of that.
Saying “give it a chance” just comes across as patronising and / or dismissive.
If I felt like there was an actual choice here, a fork in the road between voidform and something else, I’d support the something else 100%. It’s not about letting them “give it a go”. It’s making the best out of a bad situation.
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That idea is something I attempted to convey here…
But imo the reason everyone is calling out Void form specifically is because its so interlaced / intertwined with the entire shadow spec and each change they make doesn’t actually address the core issue and that’s working around the limitations set forth by Void Form itself.
If they removed Void Form or at least moved it to a talent then that free’s up the rest of the spec to work around other abilities and talents. But because Void Form is so firmly rooted to the core of how the spec functions, every talent and “borrowed” power is taken only if it improves void form in some manner shape and form.
So again, that is why people are calling for the removal of it. Is it the best message? I cannot say. But they haven’t listened to actual legitimate feedback for the past 4 years. Can you blame everyone for being a little upset given everything seen/implemented in shadowlands alpha or rather the lack of any changes?
People feel ignored, upset and betrayed by what blizz has said and how they have either ignored or not communicated with us. From everything they have given us, its just nothing but bad news that just highlights how out of touch they are and we are concerned that they are once again wasting time on going nowhere.
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I want to talk about it though, I want to bounce ideas and try to get specific pain points. See how we can eliminate as much bad from voidform as possible without killing what Blizzard feel it’s supposed to be. I’m not happy that I’m sitting here typing this, as I said if I felt like there was a choice here I wouldn’t be siding with voidform.
If I do end up trying to post something, I want feedback, not just mindless “This is not remove voidform therefor I hate”. If you truly and honestly dislike every single thing about what I have to say, then you can post that, but if even one sliver. A single idea, change, or even just way I phrased something that makes you think “This is actually a slight improvement”. I wanna hear it from you. Ok?
Looking at what this thread turned into though, just made me want to give up. And I don’t wanna give up.
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I was saying give them a chance in the vacuum of them actually trying to fix it. I’m not saying give them blind faith and just hope for the best. If they don’t try to fix it in any capacity you shouldn’t give them a chance at all, and like I said, if they try to fix it and it still doesn’t work, then yeah remove void form.
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