San’layn/vampyr Elf ALLIED RACE Coagulated Megathread of Ideas{Re-VAMPed} (Part 1)

Sadly we fans of the darker aspect of the Sin’dorei have to deal with this constantly. The whole we have Void Elves so we now own all the darker themes is a bunch of bs. They be like, Because we are blue and purple we now own rights to necrotic. Necrotic and void are not the same thing. That would be like me saying, Fel and nature are both green so I guess us fel tainted belfs as we are called by many helfer’s also own nature magic. So we would appreciate if Blizz would remove druids from the Alliance. I mean it is bs, but it would be no different then what they are doing. The sad thing is they pop into threads that have nothing to do with them just to stir up trouble.

On another note I’m hoping to see San’layn get some development. I also hope that if Blizzard continues in future expansions giving us allied races that we get either San’layn or Felblood as an allied race. My dream would be San’layn as an allied race with Dark ranger customizations and felblood customizations for blood elves. I remember that it was the original dark themed blood elves that got me into playing the game. I would really like to go back to that and have the rp tools to show that.

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Can you explain why you think this?

What light based theme are you referring to of late?

The majority of blood elf soldiers were rangers in bfa, and there is a WQ involving their blood magic golems. The only place you see their paladins is in a single warfront.

Before that we see them fight alongside the defenders of Undercity. Mostly rangers there too.

Before that in legion even their paladins were assisting the nightborne, which is arguably an extension of their own mana addicted storyline.

Blizzard doesn’t only focus on the light with blood elves.

Meanwhile I don’t really see anywhere where the San’layn (or any undead) fit within the Alliance.

Even Calia left to join the undead faction in the world. It only makes sense for the San’layn to go Horde.

Ogre thread is over there.

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Yeah true that. I got into a kerfluffle with people on it in another thread (Actually I think some folks here saw that clash) and ended up deciding that it isn’t worth my time anymore to wander anywhere beyond this thread, the Saurok thread, the Ogre thread, and the Sethrak thread, because people would like to make false claims about me without backing them up in attempt to slander. It’s very frustrating and even stressful, and something as silly as game forums shouldn’t cause that.

More to the point though, they also shove ‘but now you have light themes’ on blood elves when there are no such thing as ‘lightforged elves’. I don’t know why people are doing it because unlike Dark Rangers/San’layn v. Void Elves, “lightforged elves” would be stealing directly from Lightforged Draenei. It honestly boggles my mind, if I’m going to be completely honest. While in the same breath saying “no you can’t ‘steal’ from void elves”. And people are trying to claim I’m the hypocrite, but it’s not how things work because:
-San’layn/Dark Rangers have existed and were sought out for long before void elves were even a thing, whereas Lightforged elves literally do. not. exist. Dark Rangers of which are present on the Horde right now, as well. San’layn of which have attempted to join it.
-“Goth” and “Dark” isn’t a theme like people want to pretend it is. Void = / = either death or fel. Void Elves are NOT San’layn, they’re NOT Dark Rangers, and they’re NOT felblood elves. Whereas Blood Elves and High Elves ARE interchangeable.
-Golden eyes don’t suddenly mean golden themes. As I said in another thread, if they really want to emphasize blood elf, they would add either more arcane themes or fel. And the other THEME wouldn’t be ‘light’ because lightforged elves aren’t a bloody thing.
-And these people say all of this in the same breath as "give us more regular stuff for void elves and ignore their void theme FROM BLOOD ELVES while also saying only we can have ‘dark themed elves’ (not a theme so incorrect on their part anyway).

It just… sigh. If they want to make up lore for lightforged elves as blizzard does so ridiculously a lot, fine, but I am adamantly against the notion because they very much should focus on lore for elves for the Horde that has been made and sought out for.

Honestly? I say we don’t even worry about it. If these fans want to be ridiculous and try to push this on us, they can try. I entirely reject it, don’t want to see it, and am allowed to disagree. I know it’s practically a sin to disagree here on the forums, but there we go. I think it’s a bad idea like how I think Shadowlands Races being playable is a bad idea. I’ll never put down people who want it, that’s fine. I’ll never tell them they shouldn’t express their opinion or wants either. That’s also fine. But I, too, am allowed to say what I dislike, just like people come in here all the time to bash San’layn.

Very much agreed. I really wouldn’t be upset if felbloods became an Allied Race, and San’layn customization, or vice versa. I wonder if they’d end up doing felbloods as an AR or customization, because I know there’s some who would love felblood orcs as well, and I’m wondering if that’d be customization or an AR. Definitely something to consider. Oh, then we add Eradar to the mix, and again if we get lore for all these demonic free-willed entities, any of them could be possible. They at least actually exist, we just need to see them express desire to join the factions.

Outland, as we know, is still functional even if it’s shattering (thrall cinematic showed that) so I wonder if they’d ever do a revamp and return. Something to certainly think about!

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I think only if they do it in Shadowlands. If Blizz can’t find a way to introduce not only Horde vampires but a necromancer class in an expansion about death then they are lost. Introducing them some time after would now make far less sense then introducing them when they actually fit.

Alliance has werewolves so can’t have vampires also. I’m against any one faction having access to both of those races. Best to keep them separate. Even back in the black and white movies it was werewolves vs vampires and I think it should continue to stay that way in WoW.

If Alliance got vampires I would straight up give up hope for WoW. Only solution if Alliance got vampires is to give the Horde some werewolf race along with vampires also. But this is the worse scenario imo and never want to see either faction have both races.

That was under Sylvanas and can be far easier to explain then an enemy coming to them and saying “We want to be friends”. Both sides killed a Blood Prince if I remember correctly but you are still their enemy while we are still their ally. And Sylvanas is EVERYONES enemy so we have an out.

You’re welcome to your opinions but I believe this thread is for Horde San’layn and not Alliance. Thanks for your input either way.

To each their own.

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I think a lot of this is caused by Blizzard slowly forgetting their own themes to the point that a lot of players don’t even know what they are anymore.

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Reigniting the Sunwell was a mistake.

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I will admit there’s a part of me that agrees with you. I personally think Velen and the rest of the Alliance are just sitting back and laughing. It was bad enough that the arcane in the well drew the legion like moths to a flame. Now we have the light as well which seems to draw void like a moth to a flame. I should of just stayed felforged and called it a day. Hang out with my San’layn and felblood brothers and sisters.

Don’t you know that Gold eyes means that you are light forged. (just joking) You know kinda like Night Elves are now night forged cause of their night warrior eyes.

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It basically turned the Blood Elf story of one of survival and skirting a dark path to push forward into just varying levels of politics.

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If my elf titanforges do you think she’ll get higher stats than if she’s a warforged elf?

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Yes, that’s what happened to me. O_O

I use to be called Snarl but then I became warforged and my name changed to Warsnarl. So if you become warforged you’ll now be know as Warfallynn. :laughing:

EDIT: It just hit me how unfun WoW is for me at this point in time.

Some of the reasons why (i.e. My rant)
  • My nephews wanted to run a dungeon tonight and I told them I was getting off but if I did decide to run with them I had no clue what class to take since I find most, if not all, classes to be boring. I haven’t run a dungeon since Blizz screwed up the XP and speed of dungeon runs back in a pre-BFA patch.
  • I log in on my oldest toon which I haven’t played for at least 3 - 4 years or longer just cause his rep is highest, only to get my rep for the Cloud Serpents, which I finished today, and the Shado-pan for the mounts. On rare occasions for a WQ or two but then I’m off for the rest of the day.
  • I don’t craft or gather at all. Crafted gear is mostly useless so no point and I don’t use the AH to sell.
  • My favorite class/spec of BFA was enhancement shaman which I have not touched since I found out the rotation is jacked in Shadowlands and they are no longer a fast, instant casting melee class but instead a slow, casting melee hybrid.
  • I haven’t done Torghast since I found out I’d have to spend 12k minimum just for a garbage piece of gear I turn into my legendary. To acquire the gear piece I wanted is somewhere around 24k. :frowning: I’m not spending money on a piece of armor just to have it be obsolete in the next expansion.
  • No news on new playable races, classes or fixes for broken classes/specs.
  • The GCD is still too long for my liking but that could also be because the classes are garbage imo and so I actually am not enjoying the rotation and the GCD comes more to the forefront. I think the GCD should be about 1 second max but more like 3/4 a second. ESO has a 1 second GCD and it is right at tolerable.
  • Classes still require their rented powers to feel complete. Not happy at all that classes still need a rented power to feel complete instead of being complete without them and just having them be an addition instead of a requirement.
  • Blizz nerfed another fun toy the Moonfeather Statue. Not sure when they did this but it no longer affects NPC’s. When bored I use to drop this in the AH and watch the tellers turn into Boomkins and dance but now it only affects me. Lame asf. Really, REALLY tired of “Fun detected” so we must remove it. The simple things that make WoW fun are slowly being removed and it is beyond annoying. Blizz does NOT want WoW to be fun at all.
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Or you digivolved.

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If San’layn were introduced horde side I’d actually play horde. Can’t stand the post sunwell version of belves seeing as the only thing they’ve given them really is holy light themes. I prefer the darker themed magic and really like the vampire aesthetic. I’d be down for a san’layn AR.

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I want Alliance San’layn.

Red eyes make little sense for the race that’s now infused with the Light because of the Sunwell.

Same people crying about faction aesthetic needing to be preserved sure don’t seem to care if they step away from what the Blood Elves are now in favour of something that’s NPC presence was actually killed off in BFA.

It makes more sense for the ren’dorei to take in the san’layn to keep them away from their light worshipping brethren, especially after one of their groups backstabbed the Forsaken. No way the Horde would actually let them in after that. The void elves existing on the Alliance in general actually allows for atypical races to work their way in, especially elvish ones.
Aesthetically, the red eyes and changed ear shapes would expand the ren’dorei toolkit more as well past just “vampires”, and away from base high elves. Expand on the light and fel theme customizations for Blood Elves because that’s already their thematic. Blizzard’s just been sleeping on it, likely to avoid even more backlash after they made void elves exist in general.

I’m sure some of us would shut up about high elves if we actually got something - literally anything other than dark irons - requested by the playerbase, and they flipped the requests backwards and just doubled down on it all.

If you want a goth elf, the Alliance is waiting for you. If you want a regular high elf, the Horde is there.
This would be very fair, and actually keep the aesthetics intact.

And of course, blood elves should have regular red eyes - as should every elf race except maybe nightborne - but the additional deeper customizations should go towards the elvish race that’s already gothic themed.

That makes literally no sense.

The San’layn are the risen Blood Elves who left the Alliance after Garithos’s betrayal and there are already Blood Elves and Undead in the Horde.

Not to mention they already tried to join the Horde in BFA and the Alliance attacked them then.

There’s enough goth to go around for both factions.

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Nah, I feel like this would be a step in the wrong direction. Preserving ‘faction identity’ is a bad enough idea in itself, and there’s no need to double down on it.

The Horde also holds the Undead Elf theme already with Dark Rangers being members of the Forsaken, and while they’re not exactly the same kind of Undead as San’layn, the latter are former Blood Elves and still have more cultural similarities and unlike the Void Elves, prove no danger to the Sunwell and would likely be welcome back to Quel’thalas.

Alternatively they’d likely be welcome among the Forsaken as well, especially with the Forsakens leadership being more focused on reconciliation with their place in the world as as an Undead rather than conquering like Sylvanas.

The Alliance offers none of this, so I’d much rather see the San’layn go to the Horde.

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That’s nice. Not happening.

I already explained why. Scroll up in the thread.

Here’s one of the posts.

I’m not repeating myself other than:
Goth isn’t a theme but nice try. Void isn’t undead. Case closed.

“Intact aesthetics” mean nothing when void elves came out of the in the first place and here’s MY wild card: I don’t care what hair colors void elves get, as far as I’m concerned identity went out the window when they were added right along with their less than ideal (to me) lore. And the sunwell thing that didn’t by the way “Lightforge” anything. When it comes to vanilla elves, I mean.

Alliance shouldn’t get San’layn, it wouldn’t make sense lorewise nor theme wise. Because again. Alliance doesn’t suddenly have reserve on undead elves through void elves. They don’t and I’m tired of people pretending otherwise for their agenda relating to something else.

This ain’t it.

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Sunwell is half arcane and half light.

Red eyes is a long requested option, usually for dark rangers, while San’layn is normally preferred as a full AR.

So you come in here to flip it on a completely unrelated request.

Take your spite elsewhere.

This is a ridiculous claim.

There is nothing to link San’layn to the Alliance.

I’m sorry why do you think this?

Alliance will kill any undead who tries to join them. Especially San’layn.

These are not their only themes.

Outright lie.

Stop.

You want this kind of drama high elf threads are waiting for you.

The hell is this Gothic theme people keep claiming?

Void elves are void themed…

The only Gothic elves at all are San’layn… Which have no connections to void elves or the Alliance.

Like Sethrak going Alliance, the San’layn going Alliance is a pipe dream.

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Likely comes from one of their jokes mentioning Void Elves and San’layn both being part of the Emo subculture. I’m sure there are some definitions that could argue in favor of considering Void Elves gothic too, but I don’t particularly care either way.

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I wanted to reaffirm my support for playable Horde San’layn. This is of course my own personal preference, but it is what makes the most sense to me. If someone particularly wants Alliance San’layn, I respectfully disagree with that notion for reasons others have posted here.

We all have races we like in a fantasy setting, and to me that makes things a lot of interesting in the context of a MMORPG. I like to see all sorts of races of different types become playable so that people who enjoy a specific type of character can enjoy them. Whether it’s the Dwarf fan who wants to drink ale all the time, the Elf fan who wants to be this amazing Ranger able to shoot a fly between its eyes with a toothpick, to the Ogre fan that just wants to smash stuff up. This is among several reasons I try to support everyone’s particular wants when it comes to playable races.

I do also try to keep an open mind, even when it comes to races that I don’t particularly agree with. There are a few races that I don’t particular agree with, and yes I’ve voiced my displeasure at the idea of them becoming playable. Despite that, it’s all I would do. Under no circumstances would I ever judge or attack someone for the race they want playable. It’s not fun to get berated or bullied because of people not liking what you’re personally supporting.

I find no practicality in such actions and it’s depressing to see others that would come just to muck things up in an attempt to ruin another’s day. For what purpose? The “lawlz” as it were? Some perverted sense of tribalism? I’ve never really understood the point of people doing such things, and I think it’s for the best that it never makes sense to me.

I’m more of the type to come together and just support each other. That character creation screen has a lot of room on there for all kinds of races and I feel like there is more than enough room to add in new races overtime that would add some really good diversity to that character creation screen, as well as bring some passionate players to the game who would love to have their dream race finally playable.

I’ve tried to make this stance known to others. I’m not here to antagonize, I’m not here to put down others, and I certainly don’t have ambition at the expense of others. I do what I can to respect everyone and show off my support for my wanted races while helping others in their support as well.

I do not type this with a judgmental or sanctimonious posture. Instead I try to put things into perspective, realizing that there is a human being behand that mugshot you see in the top left of the post. I personally prefer to engage with others with respect as opposed to contempt as a result, even if I don’t agree with them one hundred percent.

This isn’t really directed to anyone in particular. It’s something I feel like I wanted to get off my chest. The race megathread community has some great people I’ve had the pleasure of meeting, and I’m happy to find others with similar interests that have banded together to support each other. I’m glad to be part of it and being able to have a place to voice our my support for my wanted races.

I hope people do not take offense to anything I have typed. I have not meant it to be offensive. All I’m interested in is just meeting with cool people from the different megathreads and seeing the passion they have for types of races they want to see playable in the game.

Agree or disagree as you see fit. I do not claim to be perfect, nor do I claim the above to be the ultimate truth. However, if I am judged to be wrong in some fashion, I have to question whether being right is worth it or not. It is honestly how I feel, and I hope others will consider what I say to some effect.

I look forward to continuing sharing passions with our dream playable races with each other. :wine_glass::bat:

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After a lot of thought, I’ve decided to do a deep dive into this, and I don’t care how absolutely odd I look by doing this. But if I have to use charts and essays to prove my point, so be it. Let’s dive right in, shall we?

Now, I will go point by point on my handy-dandy chart I made with MS paint because I was too lazy to grab my drawing tablet.

(1) Depicts the Thalassian Elf, whose eyes change based on the magic they use. Blue is where they start, representing arcane. Blue is also where they can revert back to from fel-green. Fel-green indicates the use of fel crystals or heavy fel magic. It’s reversible, as we’ve see. Finally, golden, the new eye color, which indicates the new status of the sunwell, which is arcane and light. If a Thalassian Elf is away from the Sunwell and doesn’t visit it, the eyes will revert to fel green (if fel magic/crystals are used) or arcane blue (don’t ask me how ‘high elves’ work, I’m no expert, I’m assuming they just have/utilize mana or something.)

Keep in mind, none of the above is modified per elf except EYE COLOR. This will be an important piece of information I will bring up later.

(2) Here we see the transition to a felblood elf. As stated in the chart, it isn’t reversible. You get a felblood elf by drinking demon’s blood for several days, which warps you for good. Your appearance DOES change, and there is no way you can ever return to being an ‘uncorrupted’ Thalassian Elf.

(3) With any form of undead elf, regardless of which path (simple undead, San’layn, or Dark Ranger/Banshee), this is not revertible. It is a permanent change.

(4) Void elves go through a ritual to become void infused. This is also not reversible. It changes the elf’s appearance and/or magical dynamics. Now, Blizzard added varying non-void shades of skin color to void elves, along with variant eye colors. This shows that void elves, at least, have varying levels of appearance change. They, however, still have that racial and can shift to being that ball of void energy. Their appearance could be modified (tentacle hair) but also possibly not. Regardless, they cannot revert to being an uncorrupted Thalassian elf.

(5) Light corruption in Thalassian elves does NOT exist. People are trying to use the golden eyes in (1) to justify a completely new type of elf never before seen in the game before–whereas (2), (3), & (4) already VERY MUCH exist in lore. Whatever this thing is, it does not. Which leads me to my next point. This is another point that will come up later.

(6) Here we get into light corruption of Draenei, leading to Lightforged Draenei. Notice something? Perhaps the fact that their appearance is perma-changed, and they can’t revert back to being blue da-ba-dee-da-ba-die? They also have glowing light tattoos and other light-related things. They went through a ritual to be perma-changed. These folks actually exist! And on the Alliance. Yet… strangely… people want to take their direct theme, the light, and their ritual, and apply it to Thalassian elves, again to create an entity that does not exist in lore, whereas (2) & (3) do exist and already have their own lore.

(7) Eredar politely asked to be included in this chart as well, so I included them. They’re in the same situation as (2). You go, you cherry-goats.

Now to summarize the points I made. You see from (1) that eye color doesn’t change anything about the elf aside from an indicator to the type of corruption they are dealing with. There are no perma-changes when jumping from one to the other, and you can, with effort, jump from one to the other without issue.

The Thalassian elf is arcane-based above all. “Blue” will be what the elf will revert to should they rely on mana and not the Sunwell. It’s how we have High Elves, or something. As per BLOOD ELF Culture, arcane tattoos make the most sense for customization. Please also consider their racial, which is 100% NOT light based. It is arcane based. This also means that things like scarring, and maybe jewelry that has a better design (ex: The choker the blood elf is wearing in the BC cinematic) would make the most sense to highlight the theme of Blood Elves.

When we look into light customization/corruption, we would be using (6) as an example. Except… the customization available to LFD is because they went through a ritual that cannot be reversed. Light is embedded into them, much like how arcane is embedded into Thalassian Elves. Void Elves on the Alliance have that for void. Light customization such as glowing tattoos or hair would therefore make no sense. There is no precedent, magic doesn’t modify in that way, there was no ritual to light-corrupt Thalassian elves in lore, and quite frankly, there shouldn’t be when we have other viable forms of corruption that fit elves the most.

THEREFORE, given the origin of Blood Elves and use of fel crystals to survive, the customization that would make the most sense would not be anything light-based. It would be (2), the felblood elf. Those exist in lore, and a key missing component is how they would desire/join the Horde and their brethren. We know Outland is still active from the Thrall cinematic, so they could be out there. Or it could be something as simple as: “A group of blood elves decided to tap even more into the power of fel and Illidari training is not a thing, so they got ahold of demons blood and BOOM consequences”.

"But Falls, where do San’layn relate in all of this?"
I’m glad you asked! San’layn are another path of corruption reflected in blood elves. How? Look to both Mists of Pandaria and BfA, Blood Elves HAVE utilized Blood Magic. It’s a viable path, not as strong as fel, but waaaay stronger than ‘light corrupted’ notions because San’layn actually exist.

However, this all just shows that San’layn would fit very well as their own Allied Race, and Felblood would make for great Blood Elf customization due to their theme. It could honestly go either way, and we could get Felblood or San’layn/Dark Ranger customization on Blood Elves themselves, but either path of corruption does fit the Blood Elf.

Not only that, but when it comes down to it? Blood Elves are a core race and have been in the game for far, far longer. So yes, they do deserve more ‘themes’ (MAGIC, GOTH IS NOT A BLOODY THEME, UNDEAD OR FEL IS) that currently exist in lore and have been asked for. I don’t care how we get these existing Thalassian Elves as playable, though I’d prefer San’layn as an Allied Race.

Light Corrupted elves do not exist, whereas other avenues of corruption do. Eye color = reversible and not pure corruption. Void Elves = / = reserving ‘the gothic style’, and it’s nonsense that people claim that while in the same breath begging for more high elf stuff on void elves. Go ahead and make those arguments (on another thread please, people know by now I don’t care about ‘regular’ stuff on void elves and don’t have a strong opinion either way aside from the desire from a hair STYLE exchange w/o tentacles), but do NOT tell me ‘oh well Horde can’t have corrupted elves because we have void elves hur hur’ since void elves are NOT fel, and they are NOT undead. Goth. is. not. a. theme. It’s not.

Case and closed.

Edit: I added this is a link to the first post as well because I’m so finished with this argument. From this point forward, people can refer to this post on why ‘lightforged options’ on blood elves make no sense.

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