Wont stop me asking for San’layn or Necromancers.
I want the thing, its viable in the lore.
No issue.
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Been lurking on this for quite a bit now, and just wanted to finally drop by in a reply and say that I fully support this. I’ve wanted San’layn (or Dark Ranger/undead elf, in general) customization options fulfilled for years, and with what tease we got from BFA, this only soared my crave. 
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Aw thanks for the support ^^ And yeah BfA drove me crazy, I really thought it would lead somewhere. Sadly there’s so many unanswered questions from that debacle and Legion yet still, for sure.
As for necromancers, those would be super neat. I played on in D3 for a bit, though I don’t touch the game much anymore. I know FFXIV has a ‘scythe class’ coming which somewhat reminds me of necromancer, even if just a tad. Looks fun! I wonder if WoW will add classes again. This expansion was super disappointing with very lackluster customization & no new races (including ARs) or classes (which I’m not that interested in myself but still… would be better than nothing)
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When it comes to the future of WoW, I don’t see a lot that is guaranteed or not guaranteed to happen. I currently see new playable races in the cards for the future, of which I see many possibilities. I don’t see why San’layn would have zero chance at all, and this isn’t because of a bias.
Sure, it’s possible we won’t see anything involving them during this expansion. It doesn’t mean we couldn’t see them again in the future. Blizzard has stated that they consider how fans react to some races, and honestly a lot of what I saw towards San’layn seems favorable and popular.
Of course, a stance I always take is that races we want playable could never become playable. Nothing is guaranteed, regardless of what support goes on. That said, it doesn’t really deter me from showing support. After all, it’s something I feel worth trying. It’s also just that…it’s something. I feel like doing something to show support for a race you particular want playable is better than just silently hoping it’ll happen.
So no, I haven’t given up hope at the moment. Nor do I see a reason to give up hope. Would there be moments that I could see giving up? Certainly. Especially depending on the direction the game goes. But until then, I still feel showing support of some sort is important.
I also view them as just more than elves. I see them as potential. Things like aesthetics, themes, backstory, future storylines, and so on. I try to look beyond the “Oh look another -insert race here-” view and instead look at their culture, personality, and such. It’s why we can have races like Mag’har Orcs and Dark Iron Dwarves be different in several ways to their parent core races. Sure, some people would make San’layn just because they are elves, but there is nothing wrong with that. Elves are popular, but I don’t really see that as a detriment to them. They would be different enough to be their own identity than just “dead elf.” People will grumble about “more elves” but then again, people will grumble over any race getting in for whatever reason.
I see no reason to stop giving support for playable San’layn, and I plan to continue my support for them. If it happens, then great! I’ll happily make a San’layn character or two. If it doesn’t…well, then it doesn’t. I take the view of “the more the merrier” when it comes to most new races, with me personally against a very few race choices. I feel that San’layn would be very unique and have a lot to offer in the character creation department. I also think despite grumblings, they would generally be well received.
I’ll continue to keep up my support for playable Horde San’layn as best as I can, for whatever it is worth. That offer to join from BfA will hopefully still be open for them if we meet up with the San’layn again. 
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Which would be a shame in my opinion, now is a great time to expand upon the vampyr curse, and possibly link its origins to Shadowlands. As much as I dislike Shadowlands lore, it would at least give answers as opposed to being up in the air. I like how they expanded upon it in Legion, as I always say, it was super neat.
Exactly. We’re here sharing out ideas and backing them up with existing lore. The story used to be very important to me, and lore from things like Lich King era and San’layn are important. It’s why I’m not interested in new non-Azeroth entities at all, nor do I like their lore. I don’t like them just walking away from ideas. Especially after what they set up in Battle for Azeroth.
I’m glad you think that way. It does get tiresome with the whole ‘no more elf’ mantra, but at this point I’m used to it. People can say it all they’d like. They can insult my ideas. They can repeat ‘no more elves’ over and over. They can call my ideas nonsense. That’s all good and well. So long as they don’t insult or slander me, which unfortunately people stoop to on the forums nowadays, I don’t care. People are free to disagree and speak up, too. I’m allowed, however, to voice the fact that I disagree and use lore to back up my arguments.
In this case, yes, San’layn are indeed distinct and have been. They have vampirism and didn’t share a theme with anything really until the Shadowlands came around. Even then, San’layn are true vampires, who drink blood/life energy. Quite like how Forsaken eat flesh to restore themselves, really. They’d go hand in hand. Sadly, Blizzard has pushed the evil narrative on the forsaken, but I like the side of them that aren’t evil and more survivors than anything.
Yeah, I’ll try as well. Being on here can be extremely grating, to be honest, but I do try to share good art and ideas when I see it relating to San’layn.
Here’s to hoping for Horde San’layn someday, be it through customization(with lore) or Allied Race (much preferred.)
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Netflix announced recently that a spinoff series to the Castlevania anime is in the works:
Seems to me the vampire hype keeps going and growing. Would be pretty neat to capitalize on this vampire popularity with some playable Horde San’layn! 
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Yeah I saw that and it’s exciting! I personally enjoyed the Netflix series quite a bit. And it’s a perfect demonstration of what I like in vampires, aside from a few small things. They’re beautiful & brutal, like the San’layn. You don’t have to be aesthetically unpleasing to be a monster, in fact, you don’t have to entirely look like a monster either.
Another neat racial or power idea would be to grow wings, though that could be encroaching on Demon Hunters. Still, if ever Blizzard finally allows DH players to use their wings as a non-combat mount, perhaps they would not mind.
I don’t think anything short of San’layn (with LORE, red eyes alone do not qualify) or player housing will get me to come back to the game, which is a shame. Perhaps the hype around these vampires will show Blizz that what they built for the vampyr curse in the game is much desired. People still drop in to give their support, to which I’m grateful. They also voice that they dislike the idea, which is fine too.
It’s definitely still a relevant topic even if we’re not going to see results for a long while.
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I support San’layn for the Alliance!
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I support San’layn for the Horde and not the Alliance. Definitely never will on the Alliance. They don’t fit by any means, and it seems like people are just asking for them on the Alliance to be spiteful.
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What a weird thing to support, imo.
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Thematically speaking the only things that blood elves have gotten the race related to San’layn is light themes that is the direction that blizzard wishes to take elves on the horde side. When it comes to the alliance the alliance has priority on the darker elf themes like the power of the Night Warrior, void elves ect. And in BFA when the San’layn tried to join the horde they were basically betrayed. I personally believe the alliance is a better fit if they get added. As for thinking that there is spite behind my argument, that’s just an attack coming out of completely nowhere but alright I guess?
I disagree 
It’s hard to add new races. We are busy balancing systems.
Seems suspect.
I doubt most people on the Alliance would want Sanlayn/darkfallen.
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No, it’s been an argument by Alliance fans and particularly those who want high elves to spite the horde. I’ve seen it as a very constant argument here, and on Twitter. I see right through it. And now it’s time for me to break down why this doesn’t hold water, at all, lorewise.
Incorrect. They got golden eyes. That’s it. There’s no “lightforged elves”, and no evidence that they’re going to create it. Lightforged Draenei have a light theme, and if we really want to get technical, arcane or fel themes for blood elves fit far more than this ‘light’ narrative people keep trying to push. Point blank period, lightforged elves do not exist. People are perfectly capable of starting their own threads to ask for Lightforged elves, sure. But there is no proof that it exists in lore, nor that it’s being pushed toward. Golden eyes suddenly doesn’t mean they are becoming ‘light elves’. They got blue eyes and purple eyes too.
Entirely incorrect. Void elves came out of nowhere, and Dark Rangers (Which have been on horde), & San’layn have existed long before void elves were even thought of. The fact that the Alliance got void elves out of nowhere doesn’t suddenly mean they ‘reserve darker themes’ for elves. Or are we going to forget Blood Elves working with blood magic in Battle for Azeroth and Mists of Pandaria, and their origins with fel?
Night Warrior also came out of nowhere and is clearly not utilized well in lore, otherwise Tyrande would have actually done something by now rather than continue to be a pushover.
And I do not. You’re entirely free to have this opinion, and if you truly believe it, with it not being just a way to spite Horde, then fine, I will respect that while disagreeing.
But it does not fit lorewise. The San’layn tried to join the Horde on the BfA, and while people bring up “They didn’t”, the Alliance went out of their way to hunt them down and kill them (also not a confirmed extermination people like to pretend happened, but make an assumption). The Alliance isn’t a fit, at all, for that reason, among other things.
The Alliance has Void and Light. there are no recurrent ‘undead’ themes. They do not fit, in my opinion, at all. San’layn align more with the forsaken story (prior to the evil bat), and they fit more with blood elves in general. After the Alliance has scorned the undead for so long, and then hunted them down in BfA, no, they do not fit. Dark Rangers, meanwhile, have been a part of the horde for gods know how long, and those in tune with DR lore can explain that.
This is like me asking for Night Elves to join the Horde, it just doesn’t work.
Edit: Also, to clear the water for those who think I argue against it (I don’t), I don’t care what void elves get. You want blonde hair? Sure. You want more lore for them with regard to high elf stuff? Sure. I don’t argue against that, and I don’t care myself what void elves get with regard to that sort of customization. In fact, I wish blood/void elves shared hair STYLES (without tentacles).
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Because they were enemies that were against the Alliance at the time. The horde left them high and dry after they used them. The alliance simply attacked an enemy relations change especially when the alliance may help the san’layn in the future unlike the horde who just let them die when they weren’t useful to them. Especially with recents developments in shadowlands with Anduin there is room for an undead theme on the alliance, the horde already has an undead theme known as the forsaken.
you got purple eyes because of a bug, and the blue eyes are for the arcane theme blood elves have. You may not like it, but the blood elves have no dark themes they have light themes and that’s it and to be frank with the current developments in the lore with the sunwell it’s clear that it’s not friendly towards darker magics.
Dark rangers have no real correlation to the San’layn and obviously don’t think that highly of them if they let them die.
And that was quickly dropped and never expanded on so blizzard clearly scrapped that idea.
Exactly, they are accepting of everyone from all walks of life unlike the horde that let the san’layn rot when they needed help.
Again no real connection to the San’layn and dark rangers obviously dont care about the san’layn.
What’s with all these accusations assuming I’m trying to spite horde players. This is personal opinion and has nothing to do with the conversation. Especially when I have never even stepped foot in a high elf thread.
(Continuing this conversation, I gotta go out and eat dinner so my next response will be an hour or two afterwards sorry!)
This story wasn’t ever resolved, though, so we can’t claim that. We haven’t seen them since, at all, and it’s an assumption. People to this day debate whether or not they joined. Now, I don’t believe they did. Also, that was Sylvanas’s Horde that abandoned them anyway, if your assumption is the correct one. Remember, we were left with dreven’s death and a burning boat. No origin of Dreven, no follow up. We just don’t know.
San’layn went there looking for a home, showing willingness to work with the Horde and complete free will.
Honestly they should have never included them in BfA if they were going to leave all these open ended questions and people actually wanting vampyr themes/the San’layn expanded upon high and dry.
With the attitude the Alliance have toward the undead in general, not to mention how the San’layn also butchered several Alliance in that conflict? It really doesn’t make sense. It was indeed war, but it’s been a recurrent theme, and again, the Alliance are not fans of the undead at all. Especially with Sylvanas acting like she is now. I doubt they’d be decent even to the forsaken that aren’t evil. Anduin is a nice person and tries to be caring, yes, but the other players like Genn and Tyrande would throw a fit.
Disagree, see what I said above.
This is objectively incorrect. Since their introduction, accepting darker methods of things like fel to survive is indeed their theme. The ‘lightwell’ doesn’t erase that history. They also were one of the two races to get Demon Hunters, not to mention Kael’thas’s current relevance, and he’s as far from the light as they get. Again, if anything, Blood Elves relate to fel and arcane–they have the light well now, but it’s not their ‘second theme’ and hasn’t been expanded upon since the heritage armor stuff, even then it was such a minor lore tidbit that never came up again. Lightforged elves aren’t a thing. Also, glitch or not, blood elves still got blue eyes, which wasn’t in fact a glitch. I know people will lose their minds if some claim ‘high elves are the other blood elf theme’ or something ridiculous. Eye color does not equal theme. There is far more that goes into it. Or do all other races with eye color variants have a gigantic swath of themes? Blood Elves are high elves, something that’s been established. Either name will still have arcane magic. Meanwhile, Void Elves are an entirely new thing, for the Alliance, that is not present on the horde, nor was it ever. Them getting ‘high elf’ customization (or regular skin colors and maybe hair eventually) is turning away from the void theme and leaning to the arcane. Whereas Blood Elves really only have arcane, and the fel isn’t even really seen much–if we had felblood elves, that’d be the second one (equivalent to void elves in that aspect) but we do not.
So yes. Blood elves do have dark themes, it’s in fact why I started playing them. It isn’t reflected properly in their current customization options and I will stand by that. If they were all ‘sparkly light elves’ I wouldn’t have picked them up in the first place. They have more nuance than that.
And beyond that? I’m allowed to express what I’d like to see for the race I play, including the themes that I do see and like in blood elves. So saying ‘they have no dark themes’ just isn’t true, and I’m going to ask to see an expansion of their darker side regardless, because again, it hasn’t been shown they’re like “Lightforged draenei” and have no ‘other path’ or flexibility when it’s been seen in lore with fel & blood magic.
This is an assumption. Things come up again all of the time, including that when it comes to from MoP to Battle for Azeroth. It could be hinting to something in the future that doesn’t fit in Shadowlands. They also dropped ‘light themes’ for blood elves after they gave golden eyes. No signs of ‘light customization’ people are asking for (or any customization that people were asking for but that’s a whinefest on my part for another day).
This is just blatantly incorrect and we see it in lore throughout history. Alliance generally aren’t accepting of many things, it’s one of their flaws. This is especially in reference to the undead.
Then that’s fine, and again, I will entirely respect your opinion in that case. My statement is therefore directed only toward those with that attitude.
If you truly believe they fit in the Alliance, I respect that. I, however, do disagree, for what I mentioned. To me, they fit better on the Horde by a longshot, and I also disagree about the Blood Elf themes brought up.
Not sure if anyone wants my true and personal opinion on any of this, but frankly, I’m not a fan of ‘faction’ stuff anyway. I do feel San’layn will always fit better on the Horde. But I also don’t like the faction war at all. The Alliance has never been interesting to me personally. Nor has the faction war. I would be happy if they just dropped it entirely, and we had the choice to go neutral.
So, would I support the options on both? (Or a neutral allied race?) I would. Though I know there’s many who are adamantly against that due to the horde v. Alliance conflict. In the setting that the faction war unfortunately stays, I support them for the Horde.
(also no worries about delays, seems like we’re at least on the same page when it comes to reasoning and just it being a disagreement as to where they fit/themes of the elves.)
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I’d settle for the rest of the “corrupt” blood elves as one collective allied race for the horde just so the alliance doesn’t pick them up.
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Again, no new elves before we get ogres.
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You’ve very much made your point, thank you. I personally disagree. I respect your opinion, and definitely heard you the first time, but I do disagree. I wish you luck in your wish for ogres and think they also would be a good addition to the game even if I’m not interested in playing them. I do encourage idea sharing on the very well constructed megathread for ogres, which I have in the megathread index (second post).
I also did make my point clear, in case some skipped reading the first post, that no one here is asking for San’layn “instead of” anything. I’m not against Azeroth/Outland/Draenor race additions if I haven’t made that clear enough.
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I’m delighted any time we get new races, and while there’s some I’ve like sooner than others points at thread there’s absolutely nothing to be gained be demanding one has to be allowed before others.
It’s just pettiness that makes your request look bad, rather than getting people to rally behind it.
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