Big Blood Elf Customization Thread

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

I thought they could escape its influence if they draw upon a different source of magic?

Nope, the effect is permanent, long lasting and unescapable. That was the reason Kael et al HAD TO blown up the Sunwell after Arthas used it to resurrect Lich Kel´thuzad. and trhe reason why Aurora could taste it´s energies when it was once again back up and running regardless of her living exiled from Quel´thalas.

The way I see it, the Light didn´t replace the magical energy, it merely perfectly neutralized the Fel secondary effects and the elves ended up as a “blank”. I´m a chemical engineer, I understood it as a perfectly balanced chemical reaction.

Beware, boring science stuff ahead:

When you want to manufacture sodium chloride (commonly known as salt), you mix one specific acid and one specific alkaline component. If the amounts of acid and alkaline material are perfectly balanced, you will obtain the salt and water… if one of the components is in bigger quantities than the other, you get salt, water and the remanent of the excess substance.

Translating this theory to the Sunwell, we have that any excess on “Light” would had indeed inevitably transformed the eyes of every Belf and Helf to golden color. But this didn´t happen, making me theorize the amount of “Light” present was just high enough to counteract the Fel but NOT to replace it with an excess of Light. It is too a good explanation about why “devotion” is a factor to develop the eye color, after all Light as a "cosmical energy is… picky. Sometimes it heeds the call of the user and sometimes it ignores the call -we saw that in “Blood of the Highborne”. Priests and Paladins would be more devoted than your average mage, ergo they would be in contact with light energies with more frequency… and if their bodies lack a “Fel” corruption, well, i suppose then light will take it´s place inside their bodies, then?

I hope my theories didn´t made the explanation worse.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

Which is why heterochromia additions to showcase green eyes turning into blue or golden would be another good addition that benefits BEs but arguably can be argued for all races. It just has extra meaning imo for BEs showing their green eyes fade away… or maybe a warlock gaining green eyes idk, or Allerian elves returning to Quel’thalas aka HEs returning but exposed to Fel energies just like BEs were and regaining their blue eyes or getting golden

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

@Ariël-drakkari

I hope my theories didn´t made the explanation worse.

No it doesn’t, what you said before explained it well enough. To be completely honest, I wish the blood elves did a the fruit thing like the nightborne who ‘broke’ their addiction, essentially, because I sincerely and truly hate the sunwell lore, it is in fact the worst thing about blood elves in my personal opinion. Because it leads to fanatics screaming about how now we’re ‘lightforged’ yada yada yada.

@Ariël-drakkari

The way I see it, the Light didn´t replace the magical energy, it merely perfectly neutralized the Fel secondary effects and the elves ended up as a “blank”. I´m a chemical engineer, I understood it as a perfectly balanced chemical reaction.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So if you add in more of a chemical (blood magic) it will turn the reaction to the more extreme end (Red eyes) or even more extreme (magical mutation, radiation from the blood magic use, anima, or undeath). Same with fel, if you’re constantly using fel, you’d still have those chemicals (sunwell) but keep the green eyes because you still use fel (green eyes) or go more extreme by adding a burst of fel through demon’s blood (felblood elf).

OH! I have a chart, darn it where’s my chart, I posted it a while ago… .gotta find it, darn it. It basically says lightforged elves aren’t a thing, there is no ritual for blood elves. Only draenei as of current in this timeline of Azeroth. (So AKA no extreme chemical turning point because there is no overdose of light that changes the biology of elves yet.)

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

Exactly, very well said Lann!!

It is a gradual process… had it been a reaction hugely in favor of the Light cosmical energies, the devs would have updated Lor´s model with golden eye colors and Danuser himself would NOT had mentioned devotion whatsoever in his twitter. But he did, pointing to a “NOT HOLY or GTFO” Sunwell… the issue is more complex than “it has light inside, therefore it is holy and nothing else, case closed!!”.

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

No it doesn’t, what you said before explained it well enough. To be completely honest, I wish the blood elves did a the fruit thing like the nightborne who ‘broke’ their addiction, essentially, because I sincerely and truly hate the sunwell lore, it is in fact the worst thing about blood elves in my personal opinion. Because it leads to fanatics screaming about how now we’re ‘lightforged’ yada yada yada.

As a lore fan you can´t imagine just how much worse it is… the fanatics trying to impose a theme on us is the least of our issues. Imaginer a story beat in which an enemy faction takes the Sunwell for ransom… that faction would literally own every male, woman and child to do so as they pleased. Cause the thalassian elves would had to obey or else they could get corrupted inevitably.

When one takes that bit into account, one understands why Rommath kicked out Umbric et al… the Belves already had destroyed the fount once to prevent corruption polluting their bodies, they can´t risk any other chances of that happening. The Sunwell is a commodity yes, but a HUGE hurdle and weakness too.

The TBC writers never took this into account with the narrative… the Legion ones did, ergo the NB finding an actual REAL cure, not getting their fix back for the lols.

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So if you add in more of a chemical (blood magic) it will turn the reaction to the more extreme end (Red eyes) or even more extreme (magical mutation, radiation from the blood magic use, anima, or undeath). Same with fel, if you’re constantly using fel, you’d still have those chemicals (sunwell) but keep the green eyes because you still use fel (green eyes) or go more extreme by adding a burst of fel through demon’s blood (felblood elf).

If you notice, creatures absorbing huge amounts of any of the cosmical energies in WoW get some kind of mutation after effect. Regardless of the race. the thing that varies are the conditions indeed:

Fel and Arcane (as mirrors) are the “passively corrupting” ones… people just needs to live near them and depending on their cellular structure, they will gain dependence on them (kindly reminder the Helves and Belves ARE pretty much arcane addicts. And the NB became arcane addicts too after 10k years of living near an arcane artifact).

Light and Void are the “picky” ones… indeed a ritual is required to “gain” the blessing and the properties seen in both LF Draenei (corrupted by Light) and Velves (corrupted by Void)… even Alleria had to sustain her own version of a “ritual” if you think about it (“eating” increasingly stronger creatures associated with the void cosmical energies).

Nature and Death are the middle ground… the amount of corruption seems to be directly associated to some particular amount of energy exposure (a “thresold” as we call it in chemistry), some kind of limit that once crossed causes the mutations. Malfurion developed green eyes but only after 10k years of him playing druid in the Emeral Dream. Bleeding Hollow Orcs become Dire Orcs but only after getting infused with huge amounts of Blood magic. Undead got raised only after a particularly strong magical device linked to a powerful necromantic magic was put through their literal bodies (so strong it broke their souls like in Uther´s case).

[Drede-cairne (Drede)]

@Ariël-drakkari

Personally, I loved that hairstyle. My DH used it until -like the gross anime fan I am- I ditched it for the Sasuke hairstyle (too good an oportunity to pass).

Maybe it´s a cultural thing, LATAM males do tend to suffer still from some “macho” tendencies.

I actually copied it IRL from my Blood Elf character so I think mine might be a bit more “shameful” lol

If only a manbun was not so labor intensive to get to stay in place.

@Ariël-drakkari

The overall idea of what I would like to see for the Belves is this:

Those look really cool.

I’m not sure the designs themselves feel “Warcrafty” but the general idea and implementation is pretty much spot on for what I think Blood Elf tattoos in general would be.

The range of colors is also pretty awesome.

@Ariël-drakkari

Yup, basically this. We aren´t talking lore proper here, we are talking visual aesthetics that -hopefully- reflect the lore.

And it´s a fact that the Warpaint the elf toons used in WC2 while they were called “High Elves” didn´t made it in WC3 when they got their “Blood elf” name… as painful as that is. And it´s another fact that the only elf in WoW proper who continues to use some version of celtic warpaint IS Alleria, a Void / High elf. Not Halduron, not Lor´themar, not any of the average rando Farstrider NPCs polluting the game.

To deny the Velf fans their petition -when they are the ones that actually appreciate Alleria- and the chance to get that kind of artistic tattoo designs is hypocritical. And saying this does NOT make me a “Pro”, it just makes me self aware.

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject.

@Ariël-drakkari

This too doesn´t mean Belves can´t get their own twist on the concept (after all the concept ALMOST made it in WC3, it was present in some alpha files and the stuff hilariously enough was similar to what we ended up seeing as Dark Ranger tear marks) and Belf fans can´t suggest their own versions of “warpaint” that step away from the design used for Alleria so the thematic of Farstriders using warpaint as a cultural thing is represented (cause yes, the Farstriders ARE Horde and belong to the Belves).

The Dark Ranger Tear/Makeup/Warpaint/Facepaint concept is basically adjacent to the “Farstrider Tattoo” but unique enough and stand outish enough to make everyone happy AND it woks with many other themes as well as feeling more “Horde” like.

I think it would make everyone happy.

@Ariël-drakkari

What matters, the way I see it, is to get visually unique stuff. And this can be perfectly achieved with differences in design, not with radical stuff like denying the tattoos to once side regardless of their fanbase.

This.

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

reminder that blood elves should get chokers, especially given this one from BC cinematic!

She has a Choker, a more decretive Armbands, and a circlet.

Why didn’t Blood Elves get ANY of these?

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

The argument against red eyes is objectively put, ridiculous.

The way I see it, there are 3 types of people doing this.

People who want to troll Blood Elf players. People who don’t want darker/edgier themes on Blood Elves. Greedy people who want it just because.

Their “Reasoning” is just to reach one of these goals.

I do not agree with any of these.

@Kyuu-bronzebeard

Also seriously, can we have a few Anima golems wandering round Silvermoon?

Yes, please.

@Ariël-drakkari

give me my scars and my tattoos first and after implement as many body chains as you want, Blizzard.

I agree with this.

@Ariël-drakkari

One has to be VERY careful in how one ask for stuff with this company…

I also agree with this. To an extent.

I think the jewelry NEEDS more Metal/Gem Colors and patterns not not be left as a half baked attempt that only one gender can use.

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. So if you add in more of a chemical (blood magic) it will turn the reaction to the more extreme end (Red eyes) or even more extreme (magical mutation, radiation from the blood magic use, anima, or undeath). Same with fel, if you’re constantly using fel, you’d still have those chemicals (sunwell) but keep the green eyes because you still use fel (green eyes) or go more extreme by adding a burst of fel through demon’s blood (felblood elf).

That’s how I see it. Currently. Before they change the lore again…

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

I made this chart a long time ago and can’t find it, it’s driving me nuts and I don’t think I have it saved on my computer either, ARGH!

EDIT:
WAIT I FOUND IT IN MY DISCORD OH MY GODS

Somehow scrolled up in the channel I save pictures and I did it ^^ I’m lucky

There was a huge explanation on the thread I posted it on too… hmmm. I can find the date I posted it, but forgot the contents. 06/13/2021. Shoulda bookmarked

EDIT 2: FOUND IT

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

Now, I will go point by point on my handy-dandy chart I made with MS paint because I was too lazy to grab my drawing tablet.

(1) Depicts the Thalassian Elf, whose eyes change based on the magic they use. Blue is where they start, representing arcane. Blue is also where they can revert back to from fel-green. Fel-green indicates the use of fel crystals or heavy fel magic. It’s reversible, as we’ve see. Finally, golden, the new eye color, which indicates the new status of the sunwell, which is arcane and light. If a Thalassian Elf is away from the Sunwell and doesn’t visit it, the eyes will revert to fel green (if fel magic/crystals are used) or arcane blue (don’t ask me how ‘high elves’ work, I’m no expert, I’m assuming they just have/utilize mana or something.)

Keep in mind, none of the above is modified per elf except EYE COLOR. This will be an important piece of information I will bring up later.

(2) Here we see the transition to a felblood elf. As stated in the chart, it isn’t reversible. You get a felblood elf by drinking demon’s blood for several days, which warps you for good. Your appearance DOES change, and there is no way you can ever return to being an ‘uncorrupted’ Thalassian Elf.

(3) With any form of undead elf, regardless of which path (simple undead, San’layn, or Dark Ranger/Banshee), this is not revertible. It is a permanent change.

(4) Void elves go through a ritual to become void infused. This is also not reversible. It changes the elf’s appearance and/or magical dynamics. Now, Blizzard added varying non-void shades of skin color to void elves, along with variant eye colors. This shows that void elves, at least, have varying levels of appearance change. They, however, still have that racial and can shift to being that ball of void energy. Their appearance could be modified (tentacle hair) but also possibly not. Regardless, they cannot revert to being an uncorrupted Thalassian elf.

(5) Light corruption in Thalassian elves does NOT exist. People are trying to use the golden eyes in (1) to justify a completely new type of elf never before seen in the game before–whereas (2), (3), & (4) already VERY MUCH exist in lore. Whatever this thing is, it does not. Which leads me to my next point. This is another point that will come up later.

(6) Here we get into light corruption of Draenei, leading to Lightforged Draenei. Notice something? Perhaps the fact that their appearance is perma-changed, and they can’t revert back to being blue da-ba-dee-da-ba-die? They also have glowing light tattoos and other light-related things. They went through a ritual to be perma-changed. These folks actually exist! And on the Alliance. Yet… strangely… people want to take their direct theme, the light, and their ritual, and apply it to Thalassian elves, again to create an entity that does not exist in lore, whereas (2) & (3) do exist and already have their own lore.

(7) Eredar politely asked to be included in this chart as well, so I included them. They’re in the same situation as (2). You go, you cherry-goats.

Now to summarize the points I made. You see from (1) that eye color doesn’t change anything about the elf aside from an indicator to the type of corruption they are dealing with. There are no perma-changes when jumping from one to the other, and you can, with effort, jump from one to the other without issue.

The Thalassian elf is arcane-based above all. “Blue” will be what the elf will revert to should they rely on mana and not the Sunwell. It’s how we have High Elves, or something. As per BLOOD ELF Culture, arcane tattoos make the most sense for customization. Please also consider their racial, which is 100% NOT light based. It is arcane based. This also means that things like scarring, and maybe jewelry that has a better design (ex: The choker the blood elf is wearing in the BC cinematic) would make the most sense to highlight the theme of Blood Elves.

When we look into light customization/corruption, we would be using (6) as an example. Except… the customization available to LFD is because they went through a ritual that cannot be reversed. Light is embedded into them, much like how arcane is embedded into Thalassian Elves. Void Elves on the Alliance have that for void. Light customization such as glowing tattoos or hair would therefore make no sense. There is no precedent, magic doesn’t modify in that way, there was no ritual to light-corrupt Thalassian elves in lore, and quite frankly, there shouldn’t be when we have other viable forms of corruption that fit elves the most.

THEREFORE, given the origin of Blood Elves and use of fel crystals to survive, the customization that would make the most sense would not be anything light-based. It would be (2), the felblood elf. Those exist in lore, and a key missing component is how they would desire/join the Horde and their brethren. We know Outland is still active from the Thrall cinematic, so they could be out there. Or it could be something as simple as: “A group of blood elves decided to tap even more into the power of fel and Illidari training is not a thing, so they got ahold of demons blood and BOOM consequences”.

"But Falls, where do San’layn relate in all of this?"
I’m glad you asked! San’layn are another path of corruption reflected in blood elves. How? Look to both Mists of Pandaria and BfA, Blood Elves HAVE utilized Blood Magic. It’s a viable path, not as strong as fel, but waaaay stronger than ‘light corrupted’ notions because San’layn actually exist.

However, this all just shows that San’layn would fit very well as their own Allied Race, and Felblood would make for great Blood Elf customization due to their theme. It could honestly go either way, and we could get Felblood or San’layn/Dark Ranger customization on Blood Elves themselves, but either path of corruption does fit the Blood Elf.

Not only that, but when it comes down to it? Blood Elves are a core race and have been in the game for far, far longer. So yes, they do deserve more ‘themes’ (MAGIC, GOTH IS NOT A BLOODY THEME, UNDEAD OR FEL IS) that currently exist in lore and have been asked for. I don’t care how we get these existing Thalassian Elves as playable, though I’d prefer San’layn as an Allied Race.

Light Corrupted elves do not exist, whereas other avenues of corruption do. Eye color = reversible and not pure corruption. Void Elves = / = reserving ‘the gothic style’, and it’s nonsense that people claim that while in the same breath begging for more high elf stuff on void elves. Go ahead and make those arguments (on another thread please, people know by now I don’t care about ‘regular’ stuff on void elves and don’t have a strong opinion either way aside from the desire from a hair STYLE exchange w/o tentacles), but do NOT tell me ‘oh well Horde can’t have corrupted elves because we have void elves hur hur’ since void elves are NOT fel, and they are NOT undead. Goth. is. not. a. theme. It’s not.

Case and closed.

[Iceacid-ysondre (Iceacid)]

Why can’t we have a tear drop necklace?

[Kyuu-bronzebeard]

@Ariël-drakkari

Those -well, not the video but the images and the whole pinterest page- are a collection of comissions for toons related to the Lavellan clan of Dragon age indeed, ergo yesa you are correct: Dalish elves.

Well that answers that! lol

Blood Elves could do well with those, though I really like your henna idea.

@Ariël-drakkari

Frankly, most of the Helfers don´t bother to come here and yes, high ranking members like Drede and Nico certainly have do so with an actual collaborative mentality, making valuable suggestions even.

I think your average helf pro is more or less content at this point. Some want some other minor things and none of them would refuse more of course.

I’m very happy that Nico and Drede are supporting Blood Elf threads and trying to be helpful. I very much appreciate it from them.

I would also hope to see more pros be supportive of Blood Elf requests if only to say they very much support Blood Elves being able to ask.

@Ariël-drakkari

And btw, if you need help in your thread, just ask!! Granted I´m a little bit short on ideas (my hits were the dreadlocks to represent tentacle hair and the Old God eyes stuff that Lance and Somand developed beautifully… I don´t know what else I could suggest tbqh).

By no means do I want folk to feel compelled to post there but any ideas and the occasional bump is always appreciated!

I think it’ll be quiet in my thread for awhile though until more customizations come up again. I intend to continue to keep up the thread to ensure that Blizzard doesn’t forget the voidier request for them later down the line.

Perhaps after some other races get a run, given the times.

@Soulebreaker-hyjal

It’s a start for sure. But the glow isn’t the exact same people asked for so the monkey paw lifts a finger once again.

That glow could have been better… I hope they continue to refine it.

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

EDIT:
WAIT I FOUND IT IN MY DISCORD OH MY GODS

A nice chart.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

Just a couple days left to post not planning to renew my sub until BEs get an actual customization pass that doesn’t see them also having to continue to share adjacency to VEs who have already had 2.

But I’ll keep supporting

[Balesong-argent-dawn (Balesong)]

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

The argument against red eyes is objectively put, ridiculous.

Especially because Dark Rangers have red eyes and they are Thalassian Elves, albeit undead ones.

@Ariël-drakkari

If the two premises I posted above are true (and they are), this means that players wanting to RP a “Holy High elf” VERY devoted while using an Velf… would be absolutely entitled to ask for golden eyes and any other “Light based” customization given to the Belves (again: precisely because the Sunwell is NOT “Lightforging” the Belves proper, and more importantly: both groups keep the same religious practices (heck, the Helf crowd probably exercises a closer devotion to the Human / Draenei one than the Belves themselves).

Themes related to Undeath and Blood Magic are NOT “Alliance friendly”, precisely because they lack a proper canon lore source to explain these on their side of the fence. Simply put it, apart from the Death Knights (that are by lore standards neutral), they don´t have a race nor a character nor a faction that could bring these themes to their side, less so to their thalassian elves. The Horde on the other hand owns literal zombies, owns literal THALASSIAN ELF zombies, owns trolls and Orcs that have been portrayed using Blood magics not once but several times. So for people pretending to work “in our favor” but NOT genuinely invested on it (or that have never munched in the issue like I did in march), these themes are NOT something they would want to support, cause if they do so they won´t be able to ask for those afterwards. Not with actual valid arguments at least.

This. The Sunwell isn’t an excuse to deny red eyes or really any eye color.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

Hehehe VERY good diagram, well done!!!

It is good material to show the whole “threshold” concept the lore implies exists regarding the mutagenic effects these cosmical energies have over the living races of WoW´s universe (lul, that sounded nerdy AF). As you correctly put it, there´s no evidence about “softcore” Light corruption caused by the Sunwell and the only cases related to actual corruption caused by that cosmical energy involve a ritual, something that basically involve the participation and almost the validation of the individuals by the Light itself (botyh this and void seem to involve some measure of cognitive active participation from the cosmical energies involved. No Shadow Priest becomes a “void” elf/human/draenei/dwarf/etc, no matter how many years they practice their art. No Paladin becomes “lightforged” no matter how many years he/she spends using the source. Heck, the Light answer the call of individuals already corrupted by other cosmical energies at random, that is NOT the behaviour of a passive source of corruption; if anything it is the opposite, the canon lore supports an approach involving ACTIVE participation from Light/Void for lasting corruption to manifest (remember Sir Zeliek the UNDEAD -as in, full of zombification juice- user of Holy light? I do remember him).

Tl;dr: while arcane and fel passively corrupt living beings that dwell near sources of those energies, light and void basically have to actively participate AND involve themselves cognitively wise in the corruption process (to put it in perspective, elves get corrupted by Fel… but Light has to corrupt the elves. Which means that in the first case, the elves are the ones at fault for “getting corrupted” and in the second case, the cosmical entity IS the one at fault of corrupting the living beings… perfectly matches the notion of having to “compromise” with representing members of these magical sources that cross to the material plane (no Naaru giving the blessing? No Lightforging, sorry. No Old God / Dark Naaru? No voidification either, sorry).

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

Thanks so much! Glad you like it! I made it a few months ago ^^ It highlights my points well I feel, and I’m glad you think so too. But yes, exactly! There’s that.

@Ariël-drakkari

(remember Sir Zeliek the UNDEAD -as in, full of zombification juice- user of Holy light? I do remember him).

Yep, I do for sure >:D

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

You think that if “Light corrupted”, he would had gotten zombified? I doubt so, he would have just died AND afterwards become your average DK that uses shadow and necromancy stuff.

And before people brings LF Draenei DKs to the table… those died BEFORE getting raised. Ergo, when they died, the light abandoned their dead bodies… ergo it is kinda crappy because I´m afraid the Light kinda abandoned them in their peril times too.

This is the second reason I despise so much that Light customizations suggestion… as someone who read “Blood of the Highborne” like a fangirl, it broke my heart to read about the Light literally refusing to work in favor of the elves in their darkest time. Sorry not sorry, the Light forsook them and left them vulnerable to confront their miserable ends by themselves. Is not about the Belves not being “good enough” for the Light, is about the Light being the undeserving party in this case. Mu´ru did nothing but poorly apologize from my PoV, and in my headcanon that´s the reason it sustained the abuse (maybe some weird sense of guilt).

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

@Ariël-drakkari

is about the Light being the undeserving party in this case. Mu´ru did nothing but poorly apologize from my PoV, and that´s the reason it sustained the abuse (maybe some weird sense of guilt).

SAY THE TRUTH, YES! Everyone preaches that the light is some force of pure good or whatever, but it’s not. It’s another selfish petty power that wants control just like the void. It’s why the light is a tool, no more, no less. Everyone who thinks it’s any more is delusional.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

Or maybe they don´t torture themselves the way I do regarding the lore of this game… if only to “honor” the pact between the Light and the LF Draenei, the DK combo should had never been made possible for that race and in exchange something else should had been provided (idk… shamanism or druidism). Velves can justify it cause DK´s seem to use some void / shadow magical influence on their kit, LF Draenei are basically one of those WTF incoherent combos running around regarding DKs.

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

Oh it’s because the light is based on willpower, not faith:

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

Wowpedia

Ask CDev

Ask CDev (Ask Creative Development) was a series of Q&As carried out by Blizzard’s Creative Development team who met with Chris Metzen and Alex Afrasiabi in order to provide official answers to fan questions concerning World of Warcraft. It took…

"Can you please explain how “light” works? The lore states that undead are physically incapable of using the light, much like the Broken, but then we have Forsaken players casting healing spells, and Sir Zeliek in Naxxramas using pseudo-paladin abilities.

Without spoiling too much, we can tell you that wielding the Light is a matter of having willpower or faith in one’s own ability to do it. That’s why there are evil paladins (for example, the Scarlet Crusade and Arthas before he took up Frostmourne). For the undead (and Forsaken), this requires such a great deal of willpower that it is exceedingly rare, especially since it is self-destructive. When undead channel the Light, it feels (to them) as if their entire bodies are being consumed in righteous fire. Forsaken healed by the Light (whether the healer is Forsaken or not) are effectively cauterized by the effect: sure, the wound is healed, but the healing effect is cripplingly painful. Thus, Forsaken priests are beings of unwavering willpower; Forsaken (and death knight) tanks suffer nobly when they have priest and paladin healers in the group; and Sir Zeliek REALLY hates himself."

Well, willpower and ‘faith’, but it’s all about believing you can do it.

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

That explanation kinda goes out of the window when we take into account the Belf novella (believe me, both Liadrin and Galell were VERY faithful and had lots of willpower while trying to save their people from the zombie invasion. Regardless, their attempts were in vain).

If anything, the “loss of faith” was caused precisely thanks to the failure of the magical source to work when they needed it. Liadrin literally says so in the novella when Kael´thas (the naive) saw her postulation as one of the volunteers for the sunwell mission (he remarked: good we can use another healer!!) and she answered with an epithet that raised Lor´themar´s eyebrows AND an exclamation about “what use had an unreliable source?”.

Why am I NOT surprised at watching Blizz obliterate their own canon lore?

[Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord (Fallynn)]

I personally like the ‘willpower’ explanation more myself, I never liked ‘faith-based’ stuff and could kinda swallow ‘holy light’ a bit more if I could say my paladin has the willpower to protect her family & friends, and do good, as opposed to working for some higher being. I just… hate the higher being stuff altogether. The wild gods are different, and loa, since there’s a choice there, and it’s polytheistic. But the light feels monotheistic and I just…don’t like it ><

[Ariël-drakkari (Ariël)]

For me the turnoff aspect is more related to the actual vulnerability inherent in dealings with the Light… in some ways, it is both fickle and picky. Not reliable indeed but not because of the individual per se but because of the very nature of the cosmical source (to put it in perspective the Light only helps you until it decides it doesn´t want to help you anymore… and that´s it. Likewise, the void WILL claim your mind and by proxy, your body and essence, inevitably at some point in thye future, as a payment for the “gifts” received.

This I can´t relate with… seems like a badly disguised deal with the devil. Like a very famous character from a very famous LATAM soap opera used to say “el diablo es puerco!”.

[Kyuu-bronzebeard]

@Ariël-drakkari

And before people brings LF Draenei DKs to the table… those died BEFORE getting raised. Ergo, when they died, the light abandoned their dead bodies… ergo it is kinda crappy because I´m afraid the Light kinda abandoned them in their peril times too.

!!!

Damnit…

Now I need a Death Knight LFD… cause reasons that this paragraph put in my head…

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

It’s why the light is a tool, no more, no less. Everyone who thinks it’s any more is delusional.

And why Mechagnomes and Gnomes should be able to study it and find ways to use it that are not the same as humans and dwarves.

(Also the undead…)

@Fallynn-wyrmrest-accord

I personally like the ‘willpower’ explanation more myself,

This. So much this.

Everything we see suggests its a willingness to use the Light combined with the Willpower to make use of it.

Faith is just a fancy word the religious groups associated with paladins use.

(EDIT: Also how does everyone like my new look? lol)