idk, a vacation at icecrown sounds nice…
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Welp, I’ll give it a try then.
Dreven: Ahh, is that you Bovar? Or are you still in that helmet, Ner’zhul? Either way, I fail to see why you would think I would want to ever speak with one such as you, considering you think you can break me as easily as an Ogre breaks wind.
Dreven: A new Lich King? That’s funny…I thought the current one was sitting in Orgimmar…
Dreven: And what do I care about what you’ll do? I died once, made a slave in death, and made to crave blood more often that I would like. Do you really think you can hold a candle to him (Arthas)? Go find some actual living beings to play with in your torture ideas, for life has already placed me in theirs.
Dreven: I’d be careful if I were you, your majesty. I hear there is an undead elf (Sylvanas) with an attitude a hundred times worse than the smell of your entire army coming for that seat of yours. I trust you’re keeping it warm for her.
Dreven: Do anything to my people, and we’ll march up there to have ourselves a bloody good time in your throne room. I’m sure Ner’Zhul would make an excellent footbag for our hacky sack contest.
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Haha I feel like Dreven would get beaten up hardcore, but laugh while it happened. Like… this.
I want to organize our thoughts so far, so I can bookmark this post for use if it comes up again at any point in time. I know it will. I’ve repeated myself a lot, but having a full post for my reference will help.
San’layn FAQ:
Were all the San’layn killed off by the Alliance?
The answer to this is objectively, NO. They were not all killed off by the Alliance. We saw a bunch of San’layn, including Dreven, get killed on the boat in the Alliance war campaign. It was never confirmed that this race was killed off entirely in this one action, people just assume it to be so. Which is an incorrect assumption. Why? This link right here to Blood Prince Theraldis and Atherann. BOTH OF THEM are currently missing and have been since Wrath. That is, hands down, a fact. Let’s go into some common sense assumptions we should be looking into that people are not.
The following list is not confirmed, it is questions to be mindful of:
- Why would every single member of a race be on one single boat in the middle of the ocean?
- Was there ever any point in time where the quests said all San’layn were on that boat? (No)
- Look at the definition of Neophyte. New convert… this means more San’layn were being created, and we saw other ranks such as Marquis and Marquess. Do you really…really… really think that the entire army of San’layn being created would be on one boat? Really?
- Where did Dreven come from? Flat out, he had to come from somewhere. Are we really assuming he just poof!'ed into existence with no origin? Either he existed in Wrath…and we have no idea if there are more Blood Princes running about from Wrath aside from the two missing… or he was created. And if he was created? His creator is still out there.
- Where’s the body? The body is nowhere to be seen if you go exploring on Horde side. Shandris did not take it, you flee as the Alliance hero, leaving the body behind. In fact… where are any San’layn bodies when you go look for yourself on the completion of the Hordeside war campaign? Go look at my album I posted in the first post. Mystery of the San’layn. I show you what you would see on Hordeside after the ship is burned. There are still friendly San’layn casting there, after the Alliance has fled, with some griffins a’circling. Why show us this, why not just give us some bodies and show they were all killed, including Dreven?
Are there more San’layn or less San’layn than “x” race?
We have no idea, actually. The number of San’layn has NEVER BEEN STATED. People assume they’re in very low numbers, but that has, legit, never been confirmed. No one has been able to provide even one lore source with the numbers. We simply do not know.
Was Blood Princess Thal’ena the last Blood Princess?
Again–we don’t know. It’s stated that she’s Lana’thel’s daughter, but no further information is given. She very well could be, or she could not be. She could never be mentioned again. There are many possibilities.
How do you think San’layn could fit into the Horde? Are they just evil?
Well, are Forsaken or DK just evil? No, they have different ways of dealing with undeath. They have wills. So do San’layn. In no instance has it been said that San’layn are strictly mindless or evil. They would connect a lot to their Forsaken and DK cousins. I personally would love to see an arc where it’s shown that like Forsaken and DK, they can have personalities, empathy, and what have you while still being monstrous. It’s all about how you direct your power, and San’layn could easily take down and feed upon enemies of the Horde.
Dreven betrayed the Horde, that means ALL San’layn are evil.
False. Dreven made his own decision, and personally I assume it was out of desperation. It also could not have been–we don’t know. We have no idea what he was ordered to do, we have no idea what Sylv expected of him. She could have told him to distract the Alliance at all costs, including her forsaken. We simply do not know. Even if he showed incompetence by that betrayal, should it purely be on him and not out of desperation, this does not mean every San’layn follows in his footsteps.
Dreven had listened to Rhokan and Talanji in that conversation to go “move rocks”. He obeyed and it was explicitly stated that the San’layn have no home. If these people had no care, and had no emotion or will, why would they bother trying to work with the other races at all?
Wait, so what are the origins of San’layn?
San’layn followed Illidan to try and defeat Arthas. They were Silvermoon city loyalists that wanted to do well for their people, falling in battle only to be turned against them. They are Blood Elves cursed with a “blood” or “vampyr” curse.
What is the origin of the Blood Curse?
We don’t know, not entirely, at least. This quest gives some good insight as to a start of looking into it. This goes back before Arthas and to Vry’kul meddling in dark magics.
What are the instances of blood or vampire themes in BfA?
- Blood Trolls, which likely have no link to San’layn.
- San’layn in the war campaign.
- Inscription: Tools of the Trade, Sanguine Feather Quill of Lana’thel (no San’layn lore here, the name just refers to Blood Queen.)
- Blood elves casting blood magic in the Nazmir incursions
- Vry’kul using powerful blood magic on Island Expeditions
What sets San’layn apart?
- Vampire theme, a true one. Not void, not fel, but blood. Actual playable vampires.
- We see with both Lana’thel (wings, eyes) and the Blood Princes (claws, bat-like ears, strange model) that the blood curse mutates. We don’t know the full extent of it, either. I want to see some black/red eye options, serrated or jagged jaws of teeth, bat-like ears, claws, even wings. They can definitely be made to look different and it would make sense in the context of a blood curse mutagen.
- Unique past. San’layn lore goes all the way back to the start of Wrath. That’s more than can be said for races like Void Elves (no offense!). Not to mention, there’s big, BIG gaps. What have they been doing for all these years, where are the missing blood princes?
- Hierarchy structure. We saw that briefly in BfA, too. Blood Queen… Blood Princess and Princes (Same rank? different?)…Blood Marquis/Marquess…Neophyte. What could all of this mean? There’s so much of a chance to expand upon it.
Aren’t San’layn too powerful? Getting them as playable would be a bit OP.
Well, no, actually, because as we saw, there’s different ranks of San’layn at different power levels. We easily dispose of the Marquis/Marquess in the Alliance war campaign. Who’s to say we can’t get lower ranked San’layn? We have extremely powerful racial leaders, yes, of which would benefit the Horde to have another. Us as players, though, could get the less powerful San’layn.
The San’layn should go to the Alliance.
No…they shouldn’t. There are several posters arguing this to be petty, as proven by them saying “We should have a Horde request”. On the off chance there’s 1-2 Alliance players that actually believe this, however, I will explain why it makes no sense in lore.
The San’layn tried joining the HORDE in Battle for Azeroth. We do not know if they accomplished their mission, for it could have been ‘delay the Alliance from intervening with our mission (getting the corpse) at all costs’. In which case, the forsaken-munching would be justified, because it could have been ordered, and we know the San’layn were desperate for a home.
What did the Alliance do in Battle for Azeroth? Oh yes…
The Alliance slaughtered the San’layn in Battle for Azeroth to the point where many still (wrongly) claim they were made to be extinct (see my points above as to why that’s ridiculous). It makes no reasonable sense for the San’layn to ever join the faction that prevented them from getting the home they needed in BfA and sees them as bloodthirsty monsters.
Closing thoughts?
To me, San’layn are not “just another elf”. I put this entire megathread together because I feel there is so much rich lore to be explored with this race. They’ve been changed due to the Blood Curse. Ever since I saw them, I’ve wanted to play them. Playable vampires sound so cool. And no, I don’t want people to think of the trash “Twilight” when I talk about vampires. To me, the only “Twilight” worth mentioning is the dragonflight. I want them to think of Castlevania vampires, from the new Netflix series. Or Underworld, or Hellsing Ultamite. Dracula Untold, even… something that gives vampires a terrifying but regal name.
We can have a monstrous race that also looks good. I know I’m not going to convince anyone with this post, or my megathread. But getting all of my thoughts on one post right now is beneficial.
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Yeah, Bolvar wouldn’t take such lip without properly dispatching a beating.
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Honestly, I view Dreven as having been through so much that he does not care anymore, and he’d rather just take something like a beating as opposed to being slaves to the Lich King again. Besides…
Dreven: Need I remind you what happened to him (Arthas)? You’re not invincible and certainly not omnipotent. You cross the line, and it won’t be just my people you have to deal with. The people of Azeroth will come back to remove you, and all you’ll be able to do is sit there and issue empty threats, only this time noone will be around to caress and comfort your dying body. Maybe the next Lich King will learn not to let the power get to their head…
My Dreven cares not for the cut of his jib. :v
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I love the personality you’ve given him, always makes me smile. And honestly, it would show depth and character too, far more than what we’ve seen with him. Argh! I wish they’d take a look here and do so. If they ever did, I’d support Dreven for Blood King. For sure. I just wish he got a unique model.
In fact no unique model is what got me to lose quite a bit of hope, if I wanna be honest.
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I appreciate the kind words, though I’m just some accountant-in-training that just tries to type as best he can. ^^;
I suppose the group he was with could also use some personalities. If they were to be resurrected with Dreven, I’d need to work on their personalities as well.
Come to think of it, is it possible that San’layn can’t be killed in the normal sense? I know in some vampire lore, you need specific ways to kill them. In Dungeon Keeper 2, for example, your vampire units lose a level when they die and rise from the graveyard, dying completely if their level is 1. They die outright, regardless of their levels, if a Monk (of the friar variety) kills them. I vaguely recall the San’layn deaths in BfA being mostly uneventful, aside from Dreven, although I don’t think much special was used to kill any of them.
With any luck, they’ll also see the work I’ve done in the Ogre megathread. ^^;;
The Gilblins are getting a lot of love with new models, male and female, and might be capable of benefiting from the Goblin model update that is forthcoming. It wouldn’t be unheard of for them to make some unique San’layn models in the future.
Hope is always the last to die, but it’s not all that fun losing it. But then again, I’ve waiting since I joined shortly after BC for Ogres, and my hope still shines brightly. Hopefully you never lose your hope for San’layn. ^^
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You also are a writer in training, you should work on some novels, you got character development down ^^
Hmm… I wonder if Valanar and crew would be ressurected as well. I’m not going to lie and say I really would love Blood Queen Lana’thel to be brought back. Then again, though, some new blood would be cool. I’d love a Blood King. I mean, seeing a male San’layn with those epic wings would be so cool. We see it with Illidan, but on a vampyr lord, ah it would be so cool!
Ok so, this is an interesting question… again, this quest has a very important quote to keep in mind.
“Vampyr can die, can’t they?” …Well. Blood Thane also says: “Blood-Thane Lucard says: I… am not… defeated…”, and it’s brought up that we have no true idea where that blood orb used on the princes has been. so… there could be speculation on whether or not they can really die, or if they’re like Demon Hunters/demons, always with a way to come back aside from soul destruction…
I betcha they do 
Surely they know how popular that request is, even if the thread isn’t so much. It baffles me that ogres come up again and again and again, yet those people don’t speak in that thread! They honestly should!
I won’t ever lose hope fully, no worries, unless we get a QnA “no”. Oddly enough, they did use red eyes for the “Blood Marquess” model. So they might be starting the ordeal… who knows.
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<-- new “main”
aka demontune the lord of derp warlocking.
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Welcome back! Now you’re the master of derp stabbing hahaha
New main! (You knew me as Jaheira, Ellisandre, and Dynaheir!) I fully, and 100% support the San’layn, for becoming a playable race, be in a new Core Race, or Allied Race!
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Welcomee back and grats on the new main ![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
I’m glad you’re still with us, friend <3
We should continue to brainstorm ^^ So I know I bring this up a lot but it’s one of my favorite subjects.
Who should be the next Blood King or Queen? I favor two outcomes:
- Lana’thel returns, after a blood ritual. Perhaps even a reverse-blood ritual by three new Blood Princes. Dreven could be revived and join Atherann and Theraldis to bring her back.
- One of the missing Blood Princes, or Dreven (Revived) could be the new Blood King.
Now, I know there’s other options, but these are my top picks. On that topic, what do you guys think San’layn ranks mean, and how do you think they can advance in power? Like, how does a Marquis become a Prince, and such, and what do these powers entail.
Also, how do you think someone is turned? Most obvious answer is bite. I would be utterly shocked if there was a different method to making a Neophyte.
Azshara is the bestest queen for everyone <3
I totally support these Elves!! Such a cool idea and so well thought out ![:slightly_smiling_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slightly_smiling_face.png?v=6" ":slightly_smiling_face:")
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No! Only those that love tentacles and similar. Not us. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
Is she your loa? Hekhekehek (could you imagine)
Thanks very much! We appreciate it ^^
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Close, Elune the void loa is my loa! Ooh tho Elune lieks blood offerings so she also works
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i don’t use the pointy end. i use the blunt end to stab.
its more effective.
i’m revitalizing the rogue specs.
so i got to ask everyone, do you think sylvanis will seek retribution for the betrayl the blood elves are doing?
lorthemar is basicly joining the rebleion. Do you think shes gana be like " all bets are off, these corspes are mine. "
You know that’s an interesting question. I can see two things happening if so:
- We would possibly get San’layn
- Those risen would actually be very pissed off that she attacked their city as even the original San’layn were loyal to Silvermoon. With a will again, I can see them also potentially fighting back.
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Still waiting on that mysterious quest line dealing with Velonara and her trainee. It was edited, seemingly, to be available for all classes and both sides. Moorgoth now says he’ll meet you at your faction’s respective hub. They also mention scarlet crusade mobs and if you remember, the scarlet crusade was risen into undeath. More undeath stuff coming down the pipe. Which means that Death is more likely to be the theme of the next expansion.
Remember in Legion all the void stuff near the end? It basically foreshadowed the true theme of this expansion: Voidy/Old God stuff. The faction war is just a front for the true face of BFA. If death is the theme for the next, then San’layn are more likely. And maybe a Dark Ranger class will come with it. Can you imagine a San’layn Dark Ranger?
Here all the reasons I think Dark Rangers are the next hero class:
- They’ve been very active this expansion
- New ones have been risen both Night Elf and Blood Elf (only one so far) and, if the scenario is anything to go by, a human (possibly)
- An entire zone (Darkshore Warfront and associated quest lines.)
- New unique voice lines
- Dark Rangers (both elves) have both male and female models with pallid skin and red eyes now
- New armor
*Dark Rangers have abilities unique to them, some even from Sylvanas Heroes of the Storm abilities such as wailing arrow. - New Dark Rangers are being trained.
- Remember the Banshee creature you can transform into in the Darkshore warfront? It was primarily a healer which means that Dark Rangers could use the healing aspects of Banshee form to heal allies.
- We need another mail wearing, bow/gun wielding class. Dark Rangers do both.
- Sylvanas might go the way of Arthas and Illidan, starting her own faction. She will then raise new Dark Rangers of all races. Then these Dark Rangers go the way of DH and DK. (Speculation.)
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This would be cool! I like the idea but I don’t think a third faction is possible anymore sadly. They have a hard time enough balancing things as it is. I do think a class that is not just elves would definitely be needed so letting all do it sounds fair to me. They could be like DK. Alternatively it could be a fourth hunter spec, however this would be difficult as you literally have to die to become a DR.
Then again I don’t think spec switching is canon so I guess you could just “die” every time you switch specs hahaha. Another idea could be “greenfire” but for hunters where their arrows turn into dark spells and DR effects. This could be mixed with the Night warrior idea where you get additional customization as well.