I played (as tank) BC Classic and Wrath Classic (plus some WoW Classic) and dungeon runs were very respectful overall and I feel a change with Cataclysm. I feel Cata is where retail toxicity really started.
Since the beggining of Cata, it seems that rushing dungeons is a thing. Big pulls, skips that take more time than clearing the skipped pact, DPS and healers pulling because they feel it’s not going fast enough, etc. Remember, those are pugs, so some people don’t know the skip and end up pulling pacts while a dps in a rush pulls another one and sometimes we wipe, sometimes we don’t, everyone is stressed.
People don’t seem to realize that doing big pulls don’t accelerate the overall dungeon run duration by that much and a wipe costs a lot more time than the possible gain from doing big pulls or rushed pulls by a DPS or healer. It’s just not worth it.
I’m not saying that all groups behave that way, but I’d say I encounter that kind of behaviour 1 / 4 of time.
Remember that I talk about RDF and not guild runs or runs with people you know.
You are probably right, maybe I was just lucky in Wrath and BC… People are just so impatient… Anyway, I started voting to kick people who pulls ahead of me and if the vote fails and they are still pulling ahead of me, I stand aside and watch
I’ve been lucky enough I haven’t ever had to vote kick anyone.
I don’t think this is the right angle to deal with this.
In my opinion, people say the tank is supposed to set the pace, but it’s still group content. It’s not the tank’s job to set the pace, it’s the tanks job to take the hits. If people are pulling for you, then the healers and DPS probably need more. You would think it was entitled if DPS refused to start doing damage unless you had 2 packs on you, as otherwise it’s wasting their time.
Well, if DPS and healers need more it’s one thing, but we’re talking RDF. Sometimes the DPS needs more but the healer is barely geared for an heroic dungeon and in that case, it doesn’t end well. Sometimes I take a break because the healer is OOM while a DPS decides it’s time to pull. Every group is different.
Also, if people want more, they could ask for it instead of pulling. If everyone agrees that my pace is not adequate, I’ll be happy to adjust.
I go by my health bar. If the healer can keep it on full, I’ll pull more. Otherwise I use baseline pulls that can accommodate a 329 healer and keep me alive longer than a second if the healer lets off the gas. Also for whatever reason, some like to keep a full mana bar while the group steadily bleeds. Best metric for nEeDiNg MoRe is a full HP bar, way I see it.
DPS will pull for you, [try to] get you killed, then remove themselves from combat based on whatever second-class spec they use. It’s fine when it’s your neck on the line but see how fast a rogue sprints, a hunter hits the dirt, and a mage cowers in ice when the threat is loose.
The pace of pulls is really what separates good tanks from bad. My least favorite tanks are the guy that never gets out of combat. He thinks he is being pro but the real pros spend the extra 2 seconds killing that one straggler so the dps and heals can drop combat long enough to start drinking.
Threat is no longer an issue in cata. Mobs don’t do anything. There is no longer any need for CC. People can pull a mob pack with healer mana below 10% and still not wipe.
It definitely happened in WotLK. Anytime TOK was the daily heroic when beta dungeons were out, you saw people recruiting mages and warlocks specifically, so they could complete the dungeon in 2 minutes by blinking through a wall.
People also only invited players that had better gear than what drops from the dungeons to get them done faster.
If you’re a tank in a heroic who trys to skip bosses, please kinda take a long walk off a short bridge. Everyone else aside from the healer waited like 10 minutes or longer compared to your 1 minute or less, and we are there for the loot in the first place. Not our fault you got funneled gear due to being a tank and now you don’t need any of the boss loot but just want the valor. Go do the content with your guild or something, RDF is meant for the casuals.
I don’t know what you were answering to, but when I tank a dungoen, I skip what people want to skip and I do optional bosses when someone needs something out of it.
I always track the mana of casters, not just the healer and I try to give them time to drink when the bars are low. Sometimes I get blamed for that, sometimes I get thanked.
From my perspective, it’s up to the tank to set the tone and pace of the dungeon. Sometimes you have impatient people and a slow tank and the lead role changes somewhat, or there is contention.
If I am tanking, I tend to try to push the group to go as quickly and with as large pulls as we can handle, hopefully keeping everyone engaged and covering the content. I’ll mostly do all the content, and not skip any bosses, or expect a group of pugs to jump on a ledge to run around a long and boring river bed for the sake of not killing a single pack of mobs.
When I’m not tanking, I’ll typically just follow the tank’s lead. If I need a particular boss or skippable thing for some reason, I’ll make note in party chat.
It is. What you’re feeling is the result of RDF. From a game design perspective, random dungeons groups that are formed at no cost to the player, whether it be time or logistics, manufacture ill will, impatience, and hostile attitudes between players, because it makes them expendable. Players have no incentive to be good to one another, because they don’t need each other. A simple vote kick and the removed player is immediately replaced, it doesn’t even matter if he or she did anything wrong, and if being kicked wasn’t enough, the system further punishes that player with a 30 minute, unintelligent, indiscriminate, one size fits all debuff. Just wait until we get LFR, that when the real fun begins.
My favorite is when 4 players in the group are all on different pages. The tank(me) just trying to do regular pulls but as quickly as i can, while one of the dps is doing 2k dps and doesnt know how to buff, the other dps are running ahead and pulling packs/other one is skipping past them and raging that the group is too slow, then the healer needs on a tank trinket that drops for some reason.
The game is full of massive clowns. I had to take a break after that dungeon
Hmmm When I was in the army the CO had a plaque above the door of his office saying, “All fishermen are liars except you and me, and I’m not all that sure about you”. That was a long time ago 1981, but something just made me think about it.
