I’m curious as to what formulas you are using. Is it just a sim?
The formulas that determine damage for each ability is what I mean.
For example, normalized weapon damage:
([Attack Power] / 14 * 3.3) + [Weapon Damage]
Which is used for Crusader Strike:
[Normalized DMG] * 1.1 * [Hit Chance] * (1 + [Crit Chance]) * [Vengeance] * [Two-Handed Weapon Specialization] * (1 - [Armor Damage Reduction]) * [Crusade] * [Improved Sanctity Aura] * [Blood Frenzy]
Just do that for everything. Take the longest cooldown of any ability in your rotation, subtract the GCD from that time, divide that remainder by the cooldown of your highest priority ability, multiply that by the GCD, subtract that from the remainder, and so on.
full enchanted tier 2, with master dragonslayer ring, don julio band, 2% crit trinket, hoj, hearald of woe with crusader. blue hakkari worshipper cloak, i mean whats better than tier 2? tier 2.5? 8/8 t2 gives that extra judgement damage. is the difference really that substantial? im sure if i respecced full ret and had full t2.5 enchanted and had either hammer of ragnaros or corrupted ashbringer i would do ~400
you are looking at things from a completely elitist standpoint the top dps check in game takes about 500 to beat. No one would clear content oh please. What a reach. Classic content can be cleared by anyone who can do the mechanics it isn’t hard. I’d wager there are plenty of guilds with players outside the top 10 doing less than 900 dps.
Just because something isn’t the top of the charts comparatively doesn’t make it “bad” But you’re entitled to your opinion.
You need to do some research t2 is garbo for damage. Ask some friends for the paladin disc info
I don’t think you know what that word means.
This is a grave misunderstanding of the mechanics. I presume you’re talking about Patchwerk. That is the DPS check to beat the enrage. That doesn’t include the healing requirements.
Oh, and let’s also consider…
The only reason Ret Paladins are even CAPABLE of doing 900 DPS is because there are over a dozen FURY WARRIORS CARRYING THEM. The fights are 2-3 minutes shorter than they should be because every other DPS is doing nearly 3x as much damage.
Take away all of those other classes (or lower their DPS to the levels of a Ret Paladin). The Ret Paladin goes oom and can’t even sustain 900 DPS. Mages and Warlocks are OOM. Healers can’t heal the Warlocks after they Life Tap because they can’t afford the mana because they have to heal the tanks.
And that’s on a fight where Paladins can actually benefit from Exorcism. Their DPS is even lower on other fights. And keep in mind those are the best players.
The median for Ret Paladin is 319 DPS.
Ret sucks. Stop trying to delude yourself.
It’s not about not being at the top of the charts… it’s about being at the bottom.
https://i.gyazo.com/f47a8a469493323fd1fd41b65374b227.png
Bad - of low quality; failing to reach an acceptable standard; unfavorable; inadequate or unsuited to a purpose.
On average, Ret Paladins are objectively the worst DPS spec in the game. If Ret is the worst at dealing damage, they are objectively bad at their role.
There are a ton of flaws in your argument and you have zero class knowledge when it comes paladins but very strong opinions so it’s really not even worth talking to you at this point. Cheers.
Fortunately for me, the odds are the other 10,000 ret paladins are whom I would actually see on the battleground doing pitiful damage and not healing!
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Such as…?
Compelling argument.
Not really. You can out-DPS 99% of the mechanics, so I would say it’s way more about DPS than it is about literally anything else.
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Not to mention that DPS checks are essentially a soft mechanic for every encounter. Every single encounter is dependent on killing the boss before your healers run out of mana and your tanks die.
It’s not until much later in the game that mechanics are designed with more than just DPS in mind, and even then they added those mechanics on top of even stricter DPS checks.
Also, if we’re talking about a spec’s ability to deal damage… I think DPS is literally the only metric worth considering. All the utility you bring is essentially nothing more than added DPS value.
Blessing of Wisdom? That’s fewer casters going OOM, which means more DPS.
Blessing of Protection? That’s someone not dying which means more DPS.
Blessing of Salvation? More DPS without having to wait for tanks.
Even when considering things like Rebirth or Innervate.
Rebirth? Bringing someone back to life, which means more DPS.
Innervate? If used on a DPS, that’s more DPS. If used on a healer, that’s less chance of someone dying due to lack of healing, which means more DPS.
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Disagree. Those charts Ironchain posted definitively show that the spec is “bad” at dps.
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???
Ret pally. Lol what is that??? You making up classes now lol noob. Man they let anyone post here Haha. Ret paly Haha. Not even a thing.
Well, that and it’s just a terrible raid spec in Classic/Vanilla. I mean if I want to play the game in only vendor gear I guess I could, but that wouldn’t make it any less bad.
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No I played a paladin and tried ret in BC, it is in fact bad. Have not tried classic, but considering there are even more issues that exist than in BC, I assume it’s worse.
Not exactly accurate.
Rets hold their own against Ele Shaman, Boomkin, Feral Cats, and DPS Warriors pre Glaive.
There is a big difference to Rets pre and post Patch 2.3.2
Under no circumstances, even VR, should a Ret be close to the top of the meters.
As far as number crunching. It’s an important facet of deciding what it important in terms of itemization for a given class in a given circumstance.
If your a DPS class, pretending that DPS doesn’t matter, that defeats the purpose of what your trying to do in the first place.
No one said that you have to be crazy fanatical about the pursuit of the absolute best DPS…that should be up to the guild and the player as long as they can defeat content within their accepted tolerances.
However it’s also important to be realistic.
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The data I’m using is 2.4.3, since that’s what we’ll get for TBC, most likely.
Ret just scales incredibly poorly.
You might be right about Balance (I actually haven’t done up to SWP calculations for Balance yet), but a powershifting Cat will demolish Ret.
Arms and Fury both scale really well with crit chance and ArP, as they get more than just increased damage; they also get increased rage generation, which means more abilities cast per minute. They’re all pretty bad, but Arms and Fury will both out DPS Ret with ease.
Elemental Shaman is slightly worse than Affliction, and Affliction is well above Ret.
This thread is hilarious. I’m going to print out some of these delusional posts so I can physically touch the salty ret paladin tears.
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For a bit of fun, go to this thread:
BOOKMARK IT: HOW WILL THE SPECS RANK IN TBC?
Give a list of rankings for the DPS and check back in TBC to see how accurate you were. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
If you’re so confident Ret will be bad at DPS (I am, too), rank 'em!
Edit: noticed you already posted in there. Oops. Well, everyone else can still visit that thread and rank Ret higher than I did if you think it’ll be good. Haha.
Ret is a memespec in tbc.
Just bring holy or prot ty