Ret paladin is bad

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
21

3% miss at 63+, idk about the crit

22

You say that but that’s just the way the scaling works. SoBlood for Belf scales INSANELY well with AP (Bshout, SoE + WF, Unleashed Rage) and then also scales with your weapon damage (aka lower armor = more damage). The only reason Enhance can outpace it at certain gear levels is it has an AP-SP conversion and Ret doesn’t in TBC

23

Exactly!

There is also how much loot you need.

24

Okay, there’s a few things wrong with this.

Firstly, SoB doesn’t scale with AP; it scales with weapon damage. Granted, weapon damage scales with AP, but this is notably different than something like Rip or Rupture which scale directly with AP. To say that SoB scales insanely well with AP makes about as much sense as saying SoC scales insanely well with AP since they are both based on weapon damage – one just happens to be PPM while the other is guaranteed. Hell, it’s basically no different than saying “melee attacks scale insanely well with AP.”

Secondly, Windfury Totem does not give your SoB extra AP. That extra AP only applies to the extra attacks granted by Windfury Totem. The extra swings will trigger SoB, but the damage dealt by SoB is based off your character sheet weapon damage and is made as a yellow melee attack.

Thirdly, SoB’s damage is holy. It does not benefit whatsoever from ArP. Only white swings and Crusader Strike benefit from ArP.

Fourthly, the base damage of all of these are incredibly weak, even with double dipping Vengeance. The only way Ret ever comes close to competitive DPS is in AoE situations with Consecrate or against Demons/Undead due to Exorcism. And even then, that only brings them up to par; it doesn’t make them anywhere near 2nd highest melee DPS.

Finally, Enhancement outpaces Ret at all gear levels because it has hit cap built into its talents, has a better Windfury proc, has Flurry, has better mana sustain, and, as you mentioned, has an AP->SP conversion.

25

Alright so that means 6% hit (cap is 9%), and I am guessing roughly 15-16% crit.

You can pretty easily be hit-capped with 22% crit unbuffed in pre-tier2 gear. Again, not saying the result would be competitive, but it should be noticeably better anyway. :slight_smile:

26

This. Ret is actually a decent dps to bring to a raid.

27

We talking about tbc or classic?

28

I am not sure that this is entirely accurate. I cannot say your wrong at this time, I would need to check the discord. I know SoB scales from melee stats but I don’t know if arp affects it.

29

It is.

Seal of Command and Seal of Blood do not do damage based on the white swing; they deal damage based on your character sheet weapon damage. Since they’re both Holy damage, that damage ignores armor, and thus does not benefit at all from ArP.

30

I asking in the discord now. Will get back to you.

31

It affects it indirectly I believe (increased white damage causes increased SoB damage). Again, I believe. Haven’t toyed with TBC pservers too much so not 100% on that one.

32

ArP doesn’t affect the weapon sheet damage, though. It only affects the attack against the boss.

33

Most of them are terrible, but you wouldn’t be happy to see mine on the other team :wink:

34

You are right, sob not affected by arp.

1 Like
35

I love seeing these threads posted by people who would be out dps’d by a ret paladin :joy:

1 Like
36

Yeah you are wearing literal trash for dps gear of course you push low numbers rofl

37

The only people getting out DPS’d by a Ret Paladin would be tanks.

They’re useful in TBC, but let’s not pretend raids are bringing them because their damage output is good.

38

What data are you drawing from for your conclusions?

39

Obviously they aren’t top pumpers but they’re more than viable. And a good one should never be under 500 dps unless fight mechanics are not melee friendly. You can check logs and see guys pushing 900-1k dps in many cases.

Anyway the reason I posted is 90% of the time the people trashing ret are grey parsing sub 300 dps queens

40

Damage formulas documented throughout TBC.

You can just math out their highest theoretical DPS and see it’s the lowest of any spec. Maybe they’re better than a Cat not powershifting or a Subtlety Rogue, but that’s it.

However, in TBC, they actually have some value. With lower raid sizes, you can’t reasonably have 4 Holy Paladins, so it makes sense to bring a Ret to get your 3rd Blessing. In addition, they give the whole raid 3% crit chance, and their party gets 2% extra damage.

Just applies those benefits to other specs and you’ll see their DPS contribution (in TBC) outweighs their personal DPS loss.

In TBC, they’re viable, yes.

If everyone were doing the DPS of a Ret Paladin in Classic (even the best ones), no one would be able to clear the content.

The only reason they are “viable” in Classic is because actually viable classes pick up the slack.

Is that supposed to be impressive? If anything, it’s demonstrative of how bad they are.
https://i.gyazo.com/595c4b8cc6354c90b6b8075bc0449702.png
https://i.gyazo.com/729307f8b0e7f2e2a888e4aeb39762ec.png
https://i.gyazo.com/f0ed8a9dd5ebc89f3afad65aa0ded789.png
https://i.gyazo.com/cf76602849a35ed2cc9bfbab198ccd1a.png
https://i.gyazo.com/95c59935d1f9333c29fd99eb6d2b6045.png

Sure, I understand pointing that sort of stuff out, but it doesn’t disprove that Ret’s DPS is bad.

1 Like