That’s the balance I was referring to.
It’s not a handout if the enemies in an untimed 15 are harder than the enemies in a timed 15. Otherwise, you’d be calling raiding handouts, because they’re untimed activities aside from a boss’ enrage.
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Ahhh so you’re ok with Johnny who has never before been able to do difficult content get the reward for difficult content just because he has time to waste waiting for all his CDs to come back up?
Its a handout. Bosses have an enrage. Why dont we put an enrage timer on your untimed dungeons where if you dont complete it in 40 minutes the mobs do 1000% increased damage? lol
Actually you know what, lets make untimed dungeons like raids. You can only get loot from them once a week. I’d be fine with that model
Yeah, I know. I just think they should give the players who want the timer removed what they asking for, at a terribly inefficient rate.
If someone wants to spend all day throwing themselves at a mythic they can’t handle because they took the penalty I suggested, I say let them. Everyone else will just knock it out in a quick timed run.
I do think there needs to be some layer to prevent players way too undergeared from doing it, but yeah, the premise is there.
Make it like solo’ing a Heroic dungeon on launch. Sure, you can do it, but it’s going to take you so long that you need to ask, should you bother doing it that way?
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Let’s put an enrage timer on the dungeon bosses and we’re all set.
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I’m linking a post I made in another thread regarding the timer. I am always curious to know what constitutes a go go go mentality. I want to empirically, objectively (as much as possible) define what a rushed dungeon is versus an acceptably paced dungeon.
No one has seemingly attempted to answer this only to reply that either they wish they could discuss pulls before pulling or were forced to use CC to complete the dungeon. Neither of which answers the basic questions:
“what time frame constitutes a rushed/go go go dungeon?”
“what time frame constitutes an acceptably paced dungeon?”
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Why would I care? If he wants to waste his entire day doing it, more power to him. That’s the idea. The loot he gets isn’t going to negatively affect me. I’ll just do it with friends in a timed manner and get on with my day.
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It highly highly negatively effects the game. With bad players doing this to get gear, every bad player would have whatever gear they wished. That means that when theyre decked out, you can’t tell whether they’re bad or not. Raider io helps this immensely in the current game, but it wont for your version because any bad can push any level of key they want
It’s not the loot that makes people panic, it’s the progression of the key that is at the root of the problems we are having with this system.
Sure if you fail the key should not increase. However the problem is that instead of allowing people to find their own difficulty wall the system de-creases the key. This forces them to re-do content they already conquered to get back and practice the stuff they have yet to conquer. It’s a 30-40min trip up that can be a hard punishment if you have little time to play. And avoiding it has caused the raiderio issue.
I recommend dropping the key decrease for all keys under 7. And simply having a button on the Font of power that will decrease the key if you choose it.
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Dropping the key alternatively provides groups with a key they are more likely to time.
I agree that at the font you should be able to choose any lower level of your key if you want to.
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raider io is far from an issue. Its the best thing thats happened in this game since the introduction of M+. And yes maybe the key dropping a level is not the best solution. I like your idea on that, except below 10 since that is where the seasonal affix starts and is generally accepted as the largest increase in difficulty
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That already happens by players buying runs and boes with gold. It’s really a non-issue if a player farms their head off getting a single piece of gear you can get for 30 minutes.
If anything, farming for hours for good gear is a very MMO thing to do. If they wanna do it, that is.
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definitely your best suggestion so far!
This is what raider io is for, and a brilliant blessing it has been to the game
But they need to be challenged to move forward, not flung back a grade where stuff was easy. Putting them back a key doesn’t help them conquer the key level they are having trouble with. The only thing that helps them is to do that content over.
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A player getting mythic dungeon gear really doesn’t. That time he wastes is time that could be used for more mythic runs and raiding. Time is not an unlimited resource.
The gap between good/geared and bad/undergeared player would exist because the good/geared players who can compete at the appropriate level will simply be able to do more content.
Maybe if the lockout was monthly or something, I’d agree, but it’s only weekly.
Bad players can already deck themselves out by grinding gold anyways.
Raider io can adapt to timed runs vs untimed. Furthermore, I said a requirement would need to be in place:
I do think there needs to be some layer to prevent players way too undergeared from doing it, but yeah, the premise is there.
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While anecdotal and probably not germane to the discussion at large, I don’t have any issues with another form of dungeon content. I would just ask that for those completing untimed dungeons to not have that data tracked in raider iO - maybe have another tracking metric for pugs of untimed mythics? I think your death counter as a completion-standard would be cool.
The separation of raider iO would allow M+ PUGs would have a (little) more clearer way of identifying individuals who have made a timer in a 15, and not just completed X amount of untimed 15s
Others getting sweet gear does not affect me. (though I had no issues with TF/WF nor corruption; it’s all good to me, because my take on my performance is limited solely in when / if I’m pressing buttons [and the correct buttons!], not if I get another 500 of a stat).
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Then you shouldn’t have any issues. Your raider io is still the same whether someone grinds till their eyes bleed in untimed m+ or not. You can just not care about what they do.
Don’t get me wrong raiderio serves a function. However that function is only needed because people are attempting to avoid the punishment of being thrown back a grade and docked 30-40 minutes because they invited the wrong person.
Removing that punishment for Mythic 10 and under would lower the use of raiderio and allow more people to get their shot at a group without docking people hours for trying a new guy out.