It wasn’t really an argument for you to counter, I was just making a statement of approval about the game’s current state.
You don’t need to wait. It’s right here:
It’s not though. They didn’t say anything about dual spec, nor any intention to add it. It’s also not in the game right now.
They didn’t mention the change to Powershifting either, did they?
The changes in Powershifting hadn’t been enacted either.
The powershifting issue was due to an unintended side effect which you can effectively deem a bug, and they literally went in to great detail about how the specific designer of that patch didn’t intend for it to occur, in an interview they had with him specifically on the subject.
So…I kinda let that one slide.
We lack this sort of a deep dive for dual spec.
Hardcore raiders do not show up to raids in PvP or hybrid specs regardless of respec cost. You could raise respec cost to 1000g and raid difficulty would be exactly the same. The idea that respec costs have an impact on raid difficulty is absolutely absurd.
2 Likes
It’s still a change.
“#SomeChanges”
-Holly Longdale, Lead Producer
No idea what you’re trying to say here. This change was implemented regardless of whether or you would ‘let it slide’ or not. And it’s a change that wasn’t mentioned specifically but is now incorporated under whatever “umbrella” that #SomeChanges indicates.
If Dual Spec were put into the game, would that be a change or not?
Honestly, you don’t have to keep saying this.
I am aware that it was said, and I am aware that changes have already been made 
The funny thing, and a massive irony that exists here, is that your boy Fasc was notoriously extremely opposed to Blizzard doing anything about the feral energy bug, or the idea that they would do anything.
He kept saying “That’s how it was factually was, so it should stay that way, deal with it”.
It’s either cognitive dissonance or something else, I’m not sure, but as I’ve continuously repeated to you, not all changes are created equally. Some changes will probably happen, simply because they said they said they would make it so, and we’ve seen that inclination to do so in the various changes they’ve already introduced.
However, we know they won’t (I mean, they can’t, we’re talking a limitless variable here) do all changes. There are some changes they won’t do either due to lack of development reality, or it not being in-line with their vision for TBC. For example they probably wouldn’t do something absurd like add Death Knights to TBC, and I think this is a fair comparison as DKs are also a WOTLK introduced feature. We don’t know whether or not dual spec is one of those (to them). With any degree of certainty.
I 100% accept the possibility they they could add dual spec. I don’t think it’s impossible.
I just strongly implore to Blizzard that they shouldn’t. Blizzard has said they like feedback, so I’ll continue to voice it through all the different channels, such as these discussions. Even if it’s just my feelings 
Fasc and I also vehemently disagree with each other about Shaman Tanks.
I’m not for or against the Druid energy change since I never really got into Powershifting anyway. I don’t relish wearing a Wolfshead helm all day every day.
But what I or Fasc think about these things doesn’t really amount to much considering, overwhelming, the majority was going to have their way regardless.
At one point I was vehemently against the boost and, in some way, I still am. However, I’ve since come around to accepting it given a lot of folks I raid with and enjoy playing with are using boosted toons.
I’ve since used the boost and justified it in that I leveled Kuma and a Shaman from 1 to 70 the “Vanilla” way. I don’t feel like I need to do that all over again.
This was not said in the deep dive. Blizzard made no indications about “changes created equally” or anything like that. That’s been wholly fabricated by you and you alone.
Blizzard gonna do what Blizzard gonna do. Whatever does or doesn’t make sense to you or me or anyone else who isn’t Blizzard has no bearing on that.
1 Like
Yeah. Way to screw over the players that wanted to keep the game as close to original as possible. If you wanted ni drums why dont you stay in retail.
It matters because it demonstrates an instance of engaging in bad faith when his principles are completely the opposite in a conversation about one thing than in the other. “Some changes” was a concept well before the “feral energy crisis”, and yet it was not of any concern to him when he vehemently opposed those who wanted it changed.
It indicates the bad company you are aligning yourself with.
It is simply an objective reality that they will not make all possible changes to TBCC. I don’t really know any other way to put it. It is an un-falsifiable fact that TBCC will not be subject to every possible change that could be merit-fully conceptualized.
All I’m saying is, we don’t know if dual spec will fall in to the side of ones that do get added, or ones that don’t, until Blizzard speaks on dual spec specifically.
To be clear, #somechanges is not a confirmation that dual spec, specifically, is a shoe-in.
It means that it is a possibility, nothing more.
How are people liking this post?? Its clearly a bad troll that make 0 sense coming from a #NoChanges person mad about people asking for dual spec. Blizzard just remove this troll post.
3 Likes
Far more players support dual spec than would ever support no respeccing at all.
Try again.
It doesn’t.
If Fasc was 100% correct about his assertions and arguments, it doesn’t matter because Blizzard changed the game anyway. Being right or having the right opinion about something doesn’t amount to much when the deck is stacked against you.
I’m not “aligned” with anyone on these forums. I agree with some folks, I disagree with others. Like I said, Fasc and I vehemently disagree with each other about Shaman Tanks. I suppose that’s a good thing because it means we’re not in danger of turning any conversation into an echo chamber.
I can neither agree nor disagree with this statement. Like I said, they will do whatever they want to do. Period.
You’re correct. And this not only applies to Dual Spec but all other changes that may get added in the future are completely unknown to us. Because we’re not Blizzard.
Nothing is inevitable until it happens.
1 Like
Even if Blizzard did everything they would ever “want to do”, they still couldn’t do literally everything.
Everything quite literally means, everything, and it’s impossible for them to do that. There is finite resources. Finite development-tolerance. Finite acceptance to things they believe should be included as a change to this “some changes” environment. Finite time.
So some things that Blizzard could do, but won’t, will not make this cut.
The reasons for why those things won’t make the cut, we can’t be sure of in any case where they don’t tell us why it won’t.
They haven’t specifically told us whether or not dual spec will or won’t make the cut, or any indication as to where they are even leaning on this…so all we have are inferences based on past statements about dual spec in vague relation to TBC (and in some cases in relation to nothing).
Of course anyone is free to dismiss those things.
Either way…we don’t know. We don’t know doesn’t mean “Well the chances are good because they said some changes!”. No, the chances are literally unknown, still.
The deck isn’t stacked against anyone. There is no deck.
There has to be some feature in this game that you wouldn’t want to see added in TBC that made its way in to the game in later expansions. Anything? LFR? Monks? Like, pick a feature or newer inclusion that you aren’t a fan of. There has to be something otherwise I’d hazard a guess you wouldn’t be here in the first place.
/shakesfist
I got my wish, they fixed the powerchugging. That fix also happened to be coupled with the Energy reset from shifting.
Yup!
This is accurate, and I’ve said as much multiple times. I’m 90% certain there are old WotLK/Cata posts in the Tank boards where Neth or GC or Bornak came in and said “Yup, that makes a lot of sense, and we agree with your sentiment, but we’re going to do a thing you don’t want anyway…”
Understanding that you don’t even have a wheel to steer, let alone a hand on it, really takes all the punch out of worrying about the state of the game.
You are a licensee beholden to whatever Blizzard hands you. There is a deck, and Blizzard holds all the cards but one: your choice in paying your license or not.
Nobody is partaking in these discussions to steer the wheel, other than potentially be the post that some Blizzard dev reads and goes “You know what…? I agree with that.”. So it’s a far off wish of being a potential influence, essentially.
Just here to voice feedback and opinions on where the game should go to that end. It doesn’t even have to be based in the opinions of the dev team.
In fact at one point the dev team thought we should all post with a requirement that our real names were displayed on this forum.
That went over swell…
If we’re going to dial everything back so far to just mere preferences and aesthetic wants, then there’s no real substance here at all, for anyone, about anything.
You’re right, there’s no point (in regards to discussing the implementation of features) in literally anything without input from Blizzard. That is primarily the point you have been making, yes.
So in order to avoid you having the desire to invalidate any point made against dual spec, the easier route is to simply agree that the discussion isn’t worth having in the first place, for reasons you’ve outlined.
I don’t really…truly agree with that? But I see the logic. It makes all this conversation about “oughts” and “shoulds” kind of pointless and maybe a waste of energy, maybe.
Wanna go get ice cream?
Blizzard gonna do what Blizzard gonna do.
It is if you’re in the minority and decisions get made regardless of your input.
Or, in Blizzard’s case, if you’re not Blizzard and therefore have personal say in any of the decisions made.
Reason I stopped playing Retail was UI clutter. Almost every class I enjoyed playing had too many abilities tied to any given rotation. And what’s funny is sometimes your class still couldn’t compete with others even if you were doing all of that correctly.
I also hated the fact that my character either felt too powerful or extremely weak. As an example, I played a Frost DK during Legion. They gave Frost an ability called Breath of Sindragosa which was really awesome!
…except they also balanced the spec around it.
That’s the problem. Retail does this thing where it gives you really cool stuff, but they constantly have to rebalance your class and spec around giving you cool stuff.
First time I saw that happen was playing a Warlock during Cataclysm. They gave Affliction Haunt which, on paper, was super awesome! Made Warlock DPS really great in fights like Valiona and Theralion.
…but then, folks complained about Warlocks doing way too much damage. So Blizzard had to scale back Warlock damage to balance it. Affliction’s single-target damage was then heavily nerfed just because they had to balance the class around having 2 targets to throw copies of your dots on.
So…I guess if they did stuff like that I’d stop playing.
Other aspects I can think of were the constant class balancing and the fact that they would always release every new expansion in a kind of “beta” state where they’d “fix” everything up and until the final patch. And then they’d promise to “fix” everything again by changing it in the next expansion.
I actually discovered the reason they do this is to leave us in a continual state of dissatisfaction to ensure their customers keep coming back for more. It’s why nothing new ever lasts long because if it did, we wouldn’t have to keep coming back.
But there’s a plethora of other things I could mention. The constant revamping experience gains is another thing I could go on and on about.
That all being said, Retail has a lot of good things about it. The AH interface is an improvement, for instance. The graphics are upgraded. There are barbershops, there’s heirloom gear, there’s transmogs based on what gear you’ve acquired.