Welp that’s a third wacko-druid on ignore. I have a feeling I will not suffer this loss.
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And nothing of value was lost!
Bwahahahah
EDIT: I find it hilarious that the only people that Zipzo can get a bite from are now all the people that he has on ignore once he can’t handle being curtly responded to. Pity.
i just want a lower cost to respec, or a decaying cost.
It does decay, so what you mean is you want it to decay faster, correct?
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It’s funny to see this guy comming to my thread in classic predending to be a purist and now he’s here defending dual spec with all his might. Forum Troll?
What is the benefit of gating people. I still don’t get it. Why encourage people to only play one aspect of the game or stay logged out until raid days are over to enjoy another portion of the game?
How does that benefit the game?
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His echo chamber has simply become that much more dense.
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I don’t want dual spec. I don’t know if it’s good or bad for the game or what Blizzard is going to do, and I’m not going to speak for anyone else, just that I don’t want it.
The only facet of the game I interact with anymore is raiding and everything else I do is a means to that end. Dual spec makes players stronger thereby indirectly making raids easier and even if I don’t personally use it, other players in my raid could and probably will. The raids are already on the cusp of being too easy and so while I might not unsub directly because of dual spec, if the subsequent raiding scene becomes too easy it may just cause me to stop paying and playing.
However, simply making the spec switch only accessible from the class trainers is enough to address that issue. As long as people can’t switch mid-raid it doesn’t change the game enough for me to care.
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I disagree. I think it probably results in more time played - not less. More time to do the things you need to do to get the results you’re aiming to get. Annoying as it may be.
People don’t log out because they have to travel to a capital to respec, they log out because they have done all the content and met all their objectives. They log out when there’s nothing to gain by logging in - that happens during a content drought. I highly doubt they are logging out in frustration at having to respec.
It’s also not a lot more to do than what your version of dual spec would require. The difference is going to a class trainer (still have to go to a capital) and forking out 50g.
What I meant was your opinion on what makes an improved TBC is no better or worse than someone else’s opinion at least where dual specs are concerned. One group is not “right” for wanting dual specs and the other is not “wrong” for not wanting them.
But if you really needed to make a decision between the two I would have a hard time saying the people wanting dual specs deserve to get their way at the expense of the other group based off the motivations, intentions and reasoning presented. Doesn’t mean we wont end up with dual specs though, life aint fair.
Threads like these just reek of entitlement and that’s a huge turn off. The OP doesn’t have a leg to stand on yet they want to refute arguments against dual specs like they didn’t invent the argument in the first place. There is no argument. Not a real one. If people want it that badly they might want to take a different approach because that one does not deserve any consideration whatsoever.
Some people don’t want those things. Are their wants not worthy of consideration? I guess Blizz has to play the numbers game and make the move that satisfies the most subscribers?
Perhaps that could come in the form of “pure” TBC servers and TBC “fun” servers with dual specs and barbershops. Would that suffice?
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Not everyone wanted the boost. Or the store mount. Or Paladin Seals for both factions. Or HvH. Or Druid Energy. Etc.
Are their wants not worthy of consideration?
yes they do.
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That is based on the assumption that people are weighing all things they want to do in game equally, in which case sure they would stay logged in the extra hour or whatever to farm 100g and deal with going to a trainer.
However for a lot of people that’s not the case and dual spec is the difference between, after I’ve done X Y or Z which is what I explicitly made it a point to do today, do I spontaneously do something else because hey it’s easy to just jump into a BG or run a dungeon or whatever or do I just log out?
How?
We have the Devs own statements on this from WotLK: people were in two categories with one category being the overwhelming majority.
- Category 1 - Didn’t bother respeccing almost ever and low/no participation in anything outside of their spec (MAJORITY)
- Category 2 - Respecced regularly, sometimes multiple times a week, to do whatever it is they wanted to do (MINORITY)
To GC and Blizzard, this meant that the gold cost and respec trip wasn’t even doing its intended job. People were either outright avoiding it or were ignoring it, making whatever deterrent it could have possibly been entirely pointless. It wasn’t a deterrent, it was a brick wall, and that was for 2007-2008 WoW audiences, not 2021 modern audiences.
So you have to either claim that 2021 modern WoW players are less bothered by the inconveniences or that GC was just flatly wrong. Neither are likely to convince anyone when you have modern players reiterating the exact problems GC noted.
I still disagree. People wanting red vs blue without further explanation is entirely equal. People wanting red because they like it vs people wanting blue because red is evil is decidedly not equal. Opinions based on bad reasoning are bad opinions.
The Dev response when asked about players hating boosts was a collective shrug and a redirect to what the Devs think really draws people to this game: playing with friends and the community, and Boosts help facilitate that, so that’s that.
I’m not saying they won’t consider folks who don’t want things, but the negative impact would need to be more than “this isn’t authentic” and would need to be focused more on how such a change undermines (for example) playing with friends. The Dual Spec argument is a good candidate for how to not argue this because you have several posters arguing that without Dual Spec, people are forced to play more to farm more gold… which is decidedly not a very social or fulfilling activity. That’s something Blizzard would note and steamroll over more easily than a suggestion for cross-realm LFD which reduces interaction on-server.
LOL NO. It was all opinion. Just like the against arguments.
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Then don’t agree with it - who cares what you agree with, who cares what anyone agrees with - your agreement is inconsequential. “Good” and “evil” are meaningless abstractions in the debate about dual specs.
This is about personal preference and since the only criteria to justify change is wanting something for the sake of having it you don’t also get to retain the ability to rightly criticize anyone else’s preference on the same grounds and put them in an order that suits you - that’s called bias - not too mention hypocritical. That doesn’t stop anyone of course but once you choose a side for personal reasons you’re out of the debate.
I dont think you get to make that call for everyone. Its up to the individual how they want to perceive certain game activities and whats a worthwhile pursuit and what isnt.
The way to not argue this is to sell dual specs as something that almost certainly has to be included in the TBCC experience and the only thing you really have to “justify” your stance is the excess and entitlement you openly admitted too.
Dual specs are a convenience. Conveniences make things easier. Whether you think its worth it or not does not change that fact nor does your agreement elevate dual specs beyond the status of a convenience.
So just say you would like the convenience of dual specs because you greatly benefit from things being easier and it helps you enjoy the game more as a result. Some people are not keen on the idea of it being easier and thats a fine opinion to have - certainly no better or worse than any other opinion.
If the proof was really in the pudding then dual specs wouldn’t need an army of enforcers pushing the faith on the hicks on a daily basis. If it comes to pushing a game change over everyone who plays I dont think youre in a real good position to force the issue but it never hurts to try I guess. Even so, I do think you should have the space to operate how you want to in the form of a TBC Extra server where these changes can be implemented for you.
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Yeah I get it already. There are always winners and losers in the game of controversial game changes. Someone has something thrust upon them that they didnt want or ask for. Sucks to be them.
If the choice to add or not add ended at midnight I dont think dual spec fans would be celebrating come 12:01 am. But this is Blizzard we’re talking about here so maybe there will be a compromise and dual specs will end up a cash shop item. Another heart warming victory for everyone involved. Kumasama done proud once more.
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I know, but that is how some people try to prop up their opinions. I understand this entire discussion is one of opinion/aesthetic preference, which is why I’m not really bothered. I know people are going to reject ideas simply because they want to.
People surely can and do farm gold in social settings, but I’m far more willing to place mindless gold farming nearer the bottom of social scale compared to casual BGs, group questing, raiding, etc. It isn’t flatly wrong, it just isn’t a very persuasive argument to maintain a non-Dual Spec world because you can potentially pump up time-played without actually making that time social (which is what Blizzard has repeatedly said is the focus).
It doesn’t have to be anything. This is Blizzard’s game.
Also it isn’t entitlement, I don’t expect Blizzard to do it and I don’t think they owe me anything. It is a luxury convenience I would want them to add to the game knowing that TBCC is being designed with some changes in mind that revolve around a more modern audience than original TBC. Dual Spec folds neatly into that, but I don’t have expectations of Blizzard hopping to my whim. It is their call, and they asked for feedback, nothing more.
It isn’t even this complicated. I just want the convenience for the sake of convenience.
I’d also love to pay 1k gold to unlock the Mount Tab so I have a reason to go buy all the mounts and collect them up. This doesn’t really make the game easier on me, I don’t need it, it would barely alter how I play in the grand scheme, but I’d love the touch of modern convenience of having a spell book filled with mounts I can /castrandom as I like.
This is strictly false. There’s no “oh you gave your valid feedback so you should be done now” requirement here. If this were a Court filing where we had page limits and standing restrictions, you’d be right to a point. However, this is just a forum where ideas are just thrown about all day long, and issues that players feel passionately about get restated and restated and restated again and again, hoping Blizzard notes the feedback in an obvious way.
Ask the Ferals how they felt about the endless spam trying to address power chugging.
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I still have yet to read a counter arguments to Dual Spec.
It seems to be blanket statements with no elaboration
“Because it gates people”… But why is that good for the game?
“Because its bad for the game”… But why is DS bad for the game?
I just want to hear some reasoning behind these statements beyond “It just does” or “It just is”
If the benefits and consequence free nature of dual specs were as obvious as those who are in favor of them make them out to be then we wouldn’t have a months long crusade on the subject and we wouldn’t see stupidly manipulative OPs like the one atop this trash heap. These are obvious garbage ploys to distract people from the 800 lb gorilla in the room that says they have no right or legitimate line of reasoning to take the more traditional non dual spec TBC away from anyone who want to keep it that way. Case closed. So lets argue minutia that doesn’t matter at all instead.
That is not a stance or position that is going to garner much respect or consideration because it doesn’t deserve any. So for people to still expect to be taken seriously and have their demands met when we can all see it for what it is - is a little offensive. You want respect but don’t want to earn it or return it. I can only reiterate so many times how bad a freakin strategy that is.
Just call it like it is. You’re cool with selling out because in your mind its just selling out only a little bit, you’re going to personally benefit from it and you would like Blizz to unjustifiably accommodate you for no good reason because that’s a perfectly acceptable way to do things when you’re getting what you want.
People will still disagree but at least they cant call you a charlatan or a liar.
How does that work? If it doesnt have to be anything its nothing (or everything but thats not whats being asked for) - but that kind of sucks the wind out of your sails because if its nothing then nothing has to be changed.
But hey, you’re not really advocating for anything, just saying you think its a good idea.
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