Refuting the common arguments against Dual Spec

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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“dual spec ruins your identity! you would get known as a prot warrior or a holy priest! with dual spec that won’t happen!”

Firstly, I’ve almost never actually seen this happen. Very rarely does someone become known as a “(spec) (class)” unless they only ever play that spec and nothing else. Even so, this argument is just an appeal to emotion, not an actual argument.

Secondly, this is TBC, not retail. Specs are an extension of the class, unlike in retail where each spec may as well be its own individual class. Talent specs in TBC merely enhance the abilities you already have and maybe give you 1-2 new ones. For the most part, classes have CLASS identity, not SPEC identity.

Thirdly, how does being able to use two specs somehow make you unable to be known for one of them? I’m already known in my guild as a great tank and a great healer, even without dual spec. Because I’ve played both specs enough to have people recognize me as being good at them. Being able to quickly swap between these two specs would not change this.

“muh meaningful choices! your choices matter! talent choices are supposed to to be meaningful!”

What is this even supposed to mean? Everyone just goes with the cookie cutter “best” spec for their class/role. That’s not a meaningful choice. The old talent trees merely provide an illusion of choice, for the most part.

And again, this is just an appeal to emotion, not an actual argument.

Even so, your choices don’t “matter” when you can pay 50g to change them any time you want, as many times as you want. You’re essentially arguing that our playstyle choices should be confined to one spec because…because they just should.

Forcing players to do one thing and one thing only with a character is an outdated concept that has no place in modern times. I can imagine that a lot of people would be much more willing to farm gear for their offspec if it was easier to swap to it.

“we need the respec costs as a gold sink!”

So you just make dual spec cost 1000g like it did back when it was first released. Problem solved.

Also, right now it’s not a very good gold sink because most people aren’t doing it. Most people aren’t respeccing back and forth all the time, simply because the gold cost is too high / they don’t feel like farming a whole ton. I only respec twice per week; going heals for 2 raid days and then back to tank/dps again.

“guilds will force people to have two PvE specs and swap between them in between each raid boss!”

Okay, that’s a problem with the guild being insanely sweaty, not the game.

Even so, you could just make it so you can only swap specs in a Rested area, and/or put a 30-60 minute cooldown on swapping specs. Problem solved.

“people will start rolling need for their offspec!”

They already do that even without dual spec. And if someone does that without saying “hey mind if I need for offspec” first, you add them to ignore/blacklist addon for being a ninja.

“it wasn’t in original TBC!”

Neither was the Tinnitus debuff. Or paladins having both factions’ seals. Or having only Kara/Gruul/Mag available at launch. Or Horde vs Horde battlegrounds. Or a level 58 boost. Or a special collector’s edition mount. etc. etc.

The “#nochanges” train left the station a long time ago, and turned out to be a disaster. Blizzard openly stated that they are going with “#somechanges” for TBC. Anyone still advocating for “muh nochanges” is delusional.

The needs of the playerbase have changed radically since 2007. We’re not satisfied just being confined to one spec / role. I’d absolutely love to be able to swap between healer and tank on a moment’s notice, without having to run back to Azeroth and pay 50g each time. Especially considering that it’s nigh impossible to farm in a healing spec (outside of things like gathering or fishing), I’d rather just pay 1000g once instead of having to farm up 100g for the respec and respec-back.

inb4 “go back to retail” from trolls that didn’t read any of this

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Everything you posted is just your opinion, and also an appeal to emotion, just like the other side.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. Those changes were introduced to fix obvious problems that made or would have made the game play out very differently than was intended in 2007. For example, drums without tinnitus in 2021 would have completely broken the profession aspect of the game, a part of the game that a lot of people enjoy.

Lack of dual spec is not an obvious problem that breaks the game. It wasn’t in 2007 and it isn’t now. The game is great without it. It’s just a modern feature that some modern gamers want added. That’s it.

And you didn’t address what I think is the primary reason for not adding dual spec. As I said, dual spec is not needed to fix a game breaking problem. It is just a modern feature that some modern gamers want added, which makes it not much different than transmog, dungeon finder, LFR, pet battles, and all the rest of the crap that differentiates retail from Classic.

And if Blizzard gives in to the dual spec people, those who want those other modern features will be emboldened and never shut up until they get a TBC with all the retail features they want. Best to quarantine that disease before it spreads, IMO.

The entire reason Classic exists is because people wanted a version of the game without modern features. A version of the game from a different era where the developers had a completely different (and many would argue better) vision of what constitutes good game design. And if you don’t agree that the older game design is better, then why are you even here? It’s a legitimate question.

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No they don’t.

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anti-dual spec snowflakes OWNED with FACTS and LOGIC

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I do all the time, have also seen many others do so. So no, you are incorrect Mr. Chuck.

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You’re looking at it the wrong way. The problem isn’t the lack of dual spec, the problems are the lack of tanks in dungeons, the barrier of entry for PvP (which in turns feeds the problem of long queue for horde) and the lack of flexibility when it comes to raid composition.
Problems that dual spec could either fix or alleviate.

I would even argue that dual spec would allow more players to play what they want by letting people who are more flexible play roles that are needed and letting less flexible people play the role they want by freeing the roles the more flexible players are willing to change from.

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15 days to stop the spread!

But seriously, you are 100% correct here. People will eyeball the next part of retail they like and it continues until tbc is no longer anything more than retail confined to tbc world.

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It wouldn’t change anything, those who want to pvp do. This would just give raiders a boss spec and a trash spec.

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Then you’re trash whod get kicked from most groups if you just take everything like the hunters of vanilla.

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Flagging OP because this is not only trolling but spam, we have already enough threads about dual spec.

And OP is just portraying people that don’t agree with its opinion and deranged people. We deserve a better level of discussion on these forums.

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Every expansion has proven this false. You will still say lack of tanks and healers.

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“your post is just an opinion because I say so”

That’s not how it works, sweetie.

Lack of dual spec is not an obvious problem that breaks the game.

I’d say people choosing to log out and not play the game because respec costs are prohibitively high, is an obvious problem that breaks that game.

I’d say healers/tanks struggling to farm things because they’re not a DPS spec is an obvious problem that breaks the game.

I’d say people having to spam “LF1M TANK” for 45+ minutes is an obvious problem that breaks the game.

I’d say people having to blow gold respeccing all the time just to properly PvP is an obvious problem that breaks the game.

transmog, dungeon finder, LFR, pet battles, and all the rest of the crap

Slippery slope fallacy.

The entire reason Classic exists is because people wanted a version of the game without modern features.

And we saw how “muh nochanges” turned out in classic-vanilla. It was a disaster.

And if you don’t agree that the older game design is better, then why are you even here?

yep, you’re right, classic TBC is a 100% perfect flawless game with no issues whatsoever, and if you want to change anything, you need to go back to retail

LMAO

I really don’t get what it is with you “nochanges” people, that you have such a black-and-white view of the game. This bizarre idea that if you want to fix ANYthing about the game, that is wrong and bad and “reee retail retail go back to retail”.

Strange, I roll on offspec gear all the time and I’m not trash and have never been kicked from a group.

I just have to type these magic words: “Hey, anyone else need this, I could use it for offspec” and bam, people let me roll on the item for my offspec

it’s that easy

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I have posted about dual spec as well and all of the comments he is refuting are 100% real. My post even got banned for “toxicity” because people couldn’t handle having a discussion about it.

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Nice projection. Also, openly saying that you reported a thread is against TOS.

Also nice job proclaiming that anyone who disagrees with you is trolling, lmao

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I’m just showing that you’re doing something against the current Code of Conduct (which by the way, you don’t know).

TOS stands for “Terms of Service”.
There is no ToS.

For the forums, you have the Code of Conduct, which you can access right here:

There you can see that you have violated:

  • Inappropriate Language
  • Spamming or Trolling
  • Creating Duplicate Threads

As a new player in the forums, you should read the pinned threads before posting. There you will find useful information that would at least prevent you from violating the CoC (since there is no way to prevent you from being this toxic).

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everyone who disagrees with me is TOXIC and TROLLING!

Okay.

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Dual spec does not fix tank shortage.

That is one of the biggest myths ever. It does help a raiding guild more easily have off tanks, but those tanks are not out there helping pugs. Blizzard homogenized gear, allowed free respecs, and made 5 mans a gear path and none of that really helped the tank shortage for pugs.

The skewed requirement for tanks from 5 mans to raids and it being the least popular role is what keeps tanks out.

The main problem with dual spec is that almost all modern features can be argued as good changes, but then we look back on what it turned retail into. You can argue for it and it certainly brings a ton of convenience, but aversion to the systems that created retail wow is a fair argument against them.

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The whole dual spec “ruins character identity” or “takes away meaningful choice” are particularly amusing when most people are running generic cookie cutter builds anyways.

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It doesn’t fix it, but it alleviates it.

Nah. Nobody will say that cross-realm LFD or LFR were good changes.

what it turned retail into

And there it is, the slippery slope “game is turning into retail!!!” argument.

Protip: You can make changes to the game without “turning it into retail”, as we saw with Classic Vanilla and its dozens and dozens of changes…surprise, it didn’t turn into retail and is still vanilla.

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Then you literally didn’t read my post or the one I commented on.

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