Gotta love idiots like you. I have yet to have anyone in any dungeon/raid/heroic roll need on an item that wasn’t main spec (or ask to prior and have everyone ok with it). My response was measured to the level of the post I addressed. Go back to your corner.
Then you have a bad server, or your presence makes groups toxic.
I think its the latter.
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I see people roll need on off spec all the time, after asking the group is it’s okay.
Some talents are situational. As it is, players will choose a spec that gives them the best value for all of the situations they face in the raid. Dual spec gives players the opportunity to optimize for two distinct situations.
For example, Circle of Healing is extremely strong in certain situations and practically useless in others. Dual spec allows a priest to have circle of healing when it’s strong, and switch it out for the raid dps boost in improved divine spirit when it’s not. Warlocks currently spec deep destruction for incinerate scaling, even though in aoe situations they are primarily casting seed of corruption which is scaled deep in the affliction tree.
To a less extreme extent, prot paladins have to sacrifice aoe threat talents in order to pick up optimal single target threat talents. You would no longer have to weigh those choices depending on the nature of your assignment - dual spec allows a prot paladin to fully specialize for both situations.
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But it’s hardly the case that 1 spec would be optimal 90% of the time and a second spec would cover the other 10%, it’s more that 1 spec will be optimal 90% of the time, just about as good as optimal and the other 10% and those off cases are covered by 20 different scenarios that aren’t encapsulated in a single spec anyways.
It depends on the player. Some players will get more value out of the power to switch spec than others, and some raids will achieve greater gains from this feature than others.
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Some people will, that is however not a problem.
I’m glad that’s not a problem for you. However, I entered this thread to explain why it’s a problem for me.
Which you’ve failed to do, you’ve made a statement that some people would min max around it. Which i’ve agreed with. Now explain the problem. There is hardly the huge swing in difficulty you are alluding to by the minor tweaks dual spec allows in a min/max situation.
I don’t think you’re understanding. “The problem” implies it’s a problem for everyone. It’s just a problem for me. I don’t know how many players this affects besides me, maybe I’m the only one.
I can’t tell if you genuinely missed my explanation, or if you’re trying to communicate that my explanation was insufficient to convince you, but in case of the former, I posted it earler:
If the latter, it was never my objective to convince anyone that my problem is their problem. Like I said, I’m glad you’re exploring ways to make the game more fun for you.
No, I don’t think so.
The 50g is the clincher that makes going back to the city and getting re-summoned something that is “unreasonable” to expect.
If doing it is free, then all a raid loses is time, and it’s a lot more likely to happen. That 50g asking price is important to the equation.
First of all good luck convincing Fasc of this lol!
Thanks for posting Corpse, this is pretty much exactly how I feel. Could Blizzard disappoint me tomorrow and add it in? Of course, they’ve done it before. I’m plenty of times scorned by Blizzard, heck, that’s why I’m playing Classic.
The people who want it just…reek of the same entitlement that gave us the game that I left to play Classic for.
It’s bad vibes, and I believe history shows that it has the potential to repeat itself without a little bit of legwork put in to talk these types of lazy players down.
The person you’re engaging routinely will ignore the vast majority of nuanced content in any of your posts, to zero in on anything he can to reduce your argument to something egregiously simple and most of the time completely inaccurate, something that he’s capable of boxing in and beating with a stick (#nochanges).
These people find it literally offensive that we don’t want a thing that will make the game easier for them. It makes them irrationally angry and their methods of attack, nonsensical (see Fasc not believing in the burden of proof).
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As opposed to someone who literally doesn’t know the difference between dual spec and retail specs?
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Fair enough, I just think your issue that a handful of situations in raids might be marginally easier with dual spec is an issue for very very few people.
That’s much different than what people are taking about.
LOL wut?
Each of the arguments Profits points out in the OP are things actively argued by people that are anti-Dual Spec or generally anti-changes.
- Zipzo/Riger specifically use the identity diminished argument, with Zipzo relying heavily on an '07 quote from Blizzard.
- Likewise a ton of people have brought up the meaningful choices canard.
- Gold sinks are used to justify respec by only a few, but it has been used.
- Guild mandated double specs have been brought up by several people, but Chuckthebear and Thereza have been adamant about this being the case.
- The offspec gear point is honestly a subpoint of the guild mandated double spec argument, brought up by the same people.
- Authenticity is just a no-changes argument and some people still swear by it despite Blizzard outright denying it.
Oh please. People asking for Dual Spec haven’t been hostile or rude. People attacking those asking for it decidedly have. When Zipzo likens the request to Sharia-friggin-Law you’re not harping on the right side.
Uhhhh what? Selling out what? Selling out to whom? What insanity is this trying to be?
Read the entire post. No one is demanding Dual Spec must or has to be in TBCC. That’s why it is a request.
Sooooo people already swap this now. This isn’t a new thing, it is just a less convenient thing. If the strength gained is that serious, people go for it. So if its currently available, how is this a problem?
I’m not trying to convince or convert. Just doing the neighborly thing of reminding people that their poop does indeed have an odor and its not nice to poop in public like that.
They dont need, deserve or have a case for dual specs of any kind. So yeah its just brazen entitlement. Those are not my rules or personal interpretation either. That’s what they have to get around to get dual specs (in a real debate) and some of them must be aware of that annoying reality which is why its misdirected at the “opposition” like theyre the problem. Or maybe they really are convinced nonsense is how game changes get made.
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“If you ask for things you’re entitled! Even though that’s not what entitlement is and no one has threatened to quit over it or anything else…”
LOL
So is the #nochanges argument against dual spec 
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Adamant no, people just keep replying to my posts.
This wasn’t a tbc feature. Its a wrath one, just like arena wasnt a vanilla feature. It’s called patience.
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It was a feature that happened to be added in wrath, I wouldn’t call it a feature strongly tied to wrath. Especially as the issues it’s supposed to address are 100% present in TBC and dual spec was decided on during TBC.