Every time you have a bad experience - is it because a system is toxic? Or because you want to over react to every slight against you?
I was thinking something more simple would help the OP. Since they donât seem to understand how rIO really worksâŠhere is the FAQ support page.
Only bad players complain about RaiderIO.
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Not true. It keeps this from happening in pugs but Iâve never seen a high raider IO score player in my guild that didnât jump to help someone learn.
Couldnât you have added this to one of the many many other âRaider IO is toxicâ threads? Like regardless of if I agree of disagree why make a new thread?
wow 1.5k you really are extremely talented 
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If youre not mingling with players with low IO score, then youâre the toxic one.
Iâm not saying you actually are, my point is simply that the addon is not toxic, people are.
All it does is parse the info from blizzard. Go yell at them instead. Even if blizzard disabled every single addon in existence people would still find a way to measure players in game.
Itâs just blizzards design for the game to be like this. Itâs not longer about a âsocial experienceâ itâs more about get loot quick and get even more loot quicker. Who even cares about other players, theyâre either helping you get gear or theyâre in your way.
RaiderIO is a tool, a number. It is devoid of motive or character. It is no more capable of being toxic than your weight, your height, or your age. Sure, some PEOPLE could use that number in a deragatory or unpleasant way, but it is the person who is toxic, not the number.
Only in a particular area of content, that content being high level mythic keys were you NEED to be high skilled in order to succeed. RaiderIO is not a barrier to low level keys (Except in incredibly niche cases where people who donât know what they are doing were making the group, but they are the minority).
If you find it toxic that low skill players are left out of groups that require high skill to complete as toxic, then I donât know what to tell you. Youâre basically saying that people should sacrifice their time and their key on a thing that wonât succeed. Thatâs not fair to them.
Low gear players can learn the dungeons the same way that high gear characters did; by grinding out their own keys and/or watching guides. They can also join guilds that run mythic+ to teach them, instead of hoping/demanding that strangers do it for basically no benefit.
I agree, itâs a function of experience. But when youâre trying to make a group capable of completing a piece of content, filling it with people with a lot of experience completing the kind of content is an excellent starting point, donât you think? In fact, better metric could there be, at least when forming a group of strangers?
Indeed. But since RaiderIO score is based on clearing many dungeons, not just one high level one, they would either need to have bought a high level carry for every dungeon (Making them an incredible minority) or their score will still be subpar.
And even if none of that were true, RaiderIO would STILL be better than making a group blindly, because at least your odds of getting someone with experience would be substantially higher (You either get an experience player OR an inexperienced carry; without, you have no information, and a larger overall pool of inexperienced players).
Strictly false. Whatever its flaws, IO score does succeed at its goal; groups that are made of players with a higher average IO score are more likely to succeed than those with a lower one.
Unless youâre referring back to your earlier point that the presence of IO means that lower end players arenât learning as much and so the community skill level is dropping. In which case, I refer again to the presence of guides and guilds.
Can you really with a straight face tell me that even 50% of players with high IO scores are paid carries? Because while there is no doubt that people are buying carries, they are doing so for their weekly cache, and theyâre not doing every to do it. Their scores are not nearly as high as someone who did all available dungeons at even a +9.
Serious question, but what is? Weâve tried using gear as the metric we use to decide groups (And to an extent still do), but we found a worse version of the very thing youâre complaining about; itâs possible to get gear well above the content level youâre able to handle, and so your gearscore cannot be trusted. RaiderIO does have that problem, but no where near as badly.
And if we were to try and alleviate it further, what could we possibly use? What better metric can there be of your ability to succeed at a particular type of content than your previous success at that content?
High level keys are NOT the place to learn. Youâre supposed to already know what youâre doing. If RaiderIO is preventing you from joining high level keys that you want to learn in, then itâs doing its job
If Blizzard chooses to do so, that is their right (As it is yours to request it). However, I would hope that blizzard is able to see how RaiderIO HELPS the PuG community, by making it easier, or maybe even possible, for high end keys to be pugged.
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Raider io doesnt guarantee that you would have a successful group. It just gives you info to assess the experience of the player joining the group. io score is just one info. Inside raider io webpage, you could find more info like the number of +5âs, number of +10s, number of 15âs that were accomplished by the player. It also shows you how many SoTS and Tol Dagor the player made.
Now, if for example, you would do a SoTS +13. You could find people with high io score like 1300+ but zero run on SoTS. Would you invite such guy with no actual experience on SoTS although he has gazillion easy Freeholds? So how would io system fail? It would fail if the disposition of the player who formed the group decided to invite a player with high io score but zero experience on SoTS.
Letâs say I am forming a group to do SoTS+14 or TD +14 and I want to complete them on time. Then I see you trying to be invited on such run. I can see you did SoTS +14 and TD +14 not on time. Your highest on time on SoTS is just +11 and on TD is just +7. Are you the perfect candidate for my SOTS+14 and TD+14? Yeah, you have 1561 io score but your scores on SoTS and TD sucks. And your toon is quite rusty as your high key completion was completed 2 months ago. How did I know such info? Itâs on your info on raider io website.
How would you find a player from raider io if he cheated by being carried with gold payment or not? Just look at his number of runs on +5âs, +10âs and +15âs. Look at my info⊠a casual but legit with only 1384 io score⊠I have 32x +5âs, 27x +10âs and my highest is +13. Compare it to the cheat guy. He would have questionable runs on +5âs and on +10âs.
The bottom line is⊠People dont want baddies on their group. Basing your judgement on io score alone is not enough. Get the whole picture by looking at the raider io page of the player in question.
Why would I want to play with (carry) someone whoâs bad at the game? Thatâs a waste of my time.
Low io score doesnât mean bad at the gameâŠjust that they havenât done as many as you or as high as you. Low =/= bad
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I wouldnât say its toxic, infact even though it doesnât show skill, it will allow me (and others) to show a history of runs of that specific person to see if they are capable of being in the group, especially when pugging keys higher than a 14+. As I have always said, Raider io is mandatory to pushing higher keys if are you living the pug life, why? it filters out the conditions you would normally see in a lower range keys or base mythics, what happens if you wanna push a 15+ but you are not using raider io and making your group blindly you may ask? you get conditions like this.
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You will have someone who knows nothing about the dungeon.
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You will have someone who isnât utilizing their toolkit, this can vary on the dungeon and the affixes of the week.
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You will have someone leaving the group.
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You will have someone who is trying to get a free carry for a free 475, i.e you will see them doing the below minimal work.
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You will have someone who is intentionally throwing the key, whenever it be dying a lot, trying to waste the groups time etc.
The list goes on, its the reason why Raider io is mandatory for those who pug and push their own keys to the highest they get it to be without having one of these conditions, if I was still pushing high keys like I was during Legion and lived the pug life and have someone whispering me that is either part of these conditions, I would say these lines here.
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Iâm not obligated to teach someone the dungeon, especially when pushing about 14+ and above and doing it.
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Iâm not obligated to teach someone their class and how they use their toolkit throughout the dungeon.
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Iâm not obligated to carry someone through a 15+ when coordination is needed.
Its not me being toxic, its just I donât really want to see multiple simple mistakes I do understand mistakes happens but if its multiple piling up especially with the trend of BFA dungeons that even if the slightest mistake can be very punishing and often a chance to deplete the run (example being missing multiple interrupts on the 2nd boss of SoTS). Also, if I say iâm not obligated to carry doesnât mean Iâm toxic, I would rather have a smooth run.
I misworded it, my bad. Why would I want to do something that would be a comfortable level for me (farming 15s), with someone who has never even seen the Awakended affix? Itâs a waste of my time and would be unenjoyable.
They could Gladiator rank or a CE raider, but that doesnât mean they know the mechanics of every single add and boss in a dungeon. I donât expect Glads and CEs to mingle with me and carry me through their content.
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your good just didnât want misunderstandings!
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I donât even use raiderIO but Iâm pretty close to getting it
The amount of horrible groups that have wasted my time is getting beyond counting
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Ok this should be good.
Lol, waiting to be impressed.
No it prevents low skilled players from entering keys they donât belong in. If you havenât timed motherload at 12+ then you sure as hell donât belong in a 19+.
Are we talking about gear or skill here? Interesting freudian slip there. To your point, no, it doesnât. How the hell do you think I learned the dungeons to the point of timing 19s and 18s? I started low, at the start of the expansion, and worked my way up. Just because you want to skip the learning step doesnât make it wrong. In fact the most important part of the learning step is the bad groups. That does a better job, especially as a healer, of teaching you how to squeeze the most out of your class, far more than groups who run perfectly the whole time.
It never has been, itâs a measure of experience.
And are easy to identify, even within the in game add-on.
You say that but my experience is literally the opposite of this.
What algorithm? The points assigned to keys at a set level? Hardly what you would call an algorithm, just a simple equation.
Thatâs on the people forming the group. IO isnât a filter, it is a measurement by which players can filter, there is a distinction there.
It really doesnât.
Really? Because I have had nothing but success with it.
This was never itâs stated intention, I already went over this so I wonât repeat myself.
How? By helping me avoid inviting people to the ML 19+ in my bags right now who have no business being there?
You know what happens then? Group forming takes longer because we have to look you up on the armory first, instead of having an addon that gives us the same information we wanted.
Good luck with that.
3 Likes
OP all what you said is wrong and stop feeling entitled that people has to carry you because you think you are awesome.
This tool has been very useful to measuring certain skill level in the players before inviting them and also has helped to demish some dumb arbitrary rules from people in pugs like not inviting players of X realm because of some bad reputation.
As a tank that has pugged all his mythic plus groups up to level 15 and now has a 1500+ raider io, I can tell you it has been a nightmare when first starting out (I am referring to mythic +0-10 groups).
It is very toxic for low level pugs. Especially when you try to que for someones group. Everyone says to just start your own group and run your own key for pugs, but this is not a solution for DPS or healers when there is a lack of tanks already. Making your own group as DPS and waiting for a tank can take hours (especially, with a low raider io score and in that time most of the members have already left, especially the healers). People then say to main a tank, but when you do those people will look at your IO level and pre-determine that you donât know the routes, etc. and that your group will automatically fail as you leading it. When something goes wrong in that group (even when it isnât your fault) you will get the blame and people will use your raider io score as the reasoning behind their accusations.
Although, Raider IO is great for pushing keys higher than 10 (mainly due to the awakened affix and their routes). It is when the lower key pug groups start discriminating applicants based off their io score, is when there is an issue. Additionally, another issue with raider io is that they only score the top 500 runs on their leader boards. Right now, on my old server I would have to time a 15+ just to increase my raider io score (which would be impossible for most players who pug). Because of this raider io issue, as a result, it has forced me to pay over a $100 to transfer my characters to another realm, just so I could have a chance to raise my io score on lower level keys for my alts, if I wanted them to be a part of pug groups in the future.
Blizzard should incorporate their own raider io system that would check each player that wanted to que for any pug group for a certain io rating on any groups that were higher than 10 (due to the awakening affix). There shouldnât be an raider io check on low level keys (+0-9 mythic plus groups). These keys are far too easy for such an discriminatory system. People should be given a better chance to raise their io on low level keys.
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The taste of your lips
Iâm on a ride
Youâre toxic Iâm slippinâ under
With a taste of a poison paradise