To be fair, as I’ve said before… I’ve literally only been taken because of Brez, so I kinda get both arguments. Neither are wrong, but context plays a big role. If we’re saying like… a buncha buddies doing a key, of course +15 has zero class requirement, although utility can make it easier. But yah, at +30, it’s either full vers and mad damage or someone dies.
Remember WFR M Aggy though? That was a fight I despised because of the strat requiring a specific spec.
You’ve little idea of what you’re talking about, yet you keep going and furtherly digging your hole deeper, he was objectively right and you’re wrong, it’s that simple. Let it go.
Only it isn’t really…any form of anger. I call my 10 year old nephew a goofball all the time. I guess I should inform him it’s because I’m angry at him. It was moreso a reply of not being able to comprehend the words you were typing, as they didn’t really make logical sense. So I called you a goofball for typing them out. Wasn’t angry, was moreso humored then anything else. I didn’t think you’d take “goofball” as a cutting edge insult, but damn bro. lol My bad if it bothered you, I genuinely thought you’d think nothing of it, many people are not bothered by such powderpuff type of words.
And I’m hardly refusing to admit I’m wrong. I literally JUST stated above that you’re right, there’s a few fights per expac that require specific things. You’re making it sound like a sweeping problem, that effects every raid for every single fight when it’s so far from that, it’s laughable.
Well, tbf, there’s engineering and they now added brez engineering back to SL. I remember that discussion, it was more of an “moving forward in SL” thing that Blizzard ended up walking back.
Only I havn’t and I stand by everything I say infinitely so. =P
I have no problem at all with Elite Players getting elite gear. The problem i have is that doing content that does not give anything that is a upgrade makes players lose interest. Island expeditions i think was the perfect example of that. I think the PVP honor and VP gear are a step in the right direction, but i feel that content like Torgast and Mythic will not have a lot of participation because the rewards are not good enough.
Sure buddy, you’re entitled to your opinion, as objectively false as it is.
Yeah man. I mean, I’m happy for the Engi brez since now I won’t be more compelled to continue playing Resto Druid. I absolutely loathe playing resto, but if my group of friends needed a Brez, I’d suck it up and play it. Still not happy about the looting in M+, but at least I can work with friends on maybe seeing if they wanna partake in the armor type stacking.
So you’re talking about top tier mythic progression, well of course. They’re going to take top tier everything. The problem with that is, you’re not using the same methodology for his argument of “Anything in M+ can be done!” In most cases anything can be done in raids all the same, it’s just how fast, how efficient, how long are you willing to wait while gearing up, etc. So to say this, as I’m wrong and he’s right in the topic we’re discussing, it’s a confusing for sure.
Reverse your comment back at ya.
I am just posting in this thread to reveal that the upcoming expansion is going to be a bumpy ride.
Remember Mist of Pandaria is 8 years old. We have a lot of players who don’t know what it’s like to raid without bonus rolls or having gear drops rain down.
I do believe there’s going to be a huge culture shock.
Again, no one’s explicitly wrong. It’s a matter of context. Even if he’s in the HoF leaderboards, he’s not immediately right. For his degree of content progression and pacing, he’s right. For any other joe schmoe, he might be wrong. Personally, I think he’s right in that raid is more unbalanced than M+. Developers actively work to make it to where anyone can do a +15; a degree where the Devs balance around, and ensure that any class and spec can complete it. In Raid, most raids favour ranged. Either mechanics are easier as ranged, are targeting ranged, or give the raid group flexibility to do different strats. G’huuniepop favoured highly specific classes because (in a manner of speaking, top tier/HoF/CE/WFR) they provided something that most other classes can’t. I remember, as a Mistweaver, being the one to run the orb because lock gate + 2x Chi Torpedo could enable me to solo it. Cutting 20 seconds off a pull for 200 pulls is what? 4000 seconds, which works out to about an hour worth of time saved.
Yep, my friend was a mistweaver that was doing phase 2 G’huun aswell, there was a multitude of different classes who could do that just fine, so it was confusing me that he was pushing a narrative of only warrior/DH.
And yep, speaking purely from a top percentile, I agree with him entirely that M+ is more balenced, because in most cases it won’t matter what class they’re playing as they’re the highest skill level ceiling, so they can mostly make anything work, where as in raiding is MUCH more, what class does the best and most damage, best healing, provides the most benefits, etc in that top tier.
But in that same regard, most people pushing keys will have that same mentality was my point in that. The top tier always want…the top tier, with some exceptions of course being made dependant on the person.
I have ONLY been speaking of the majority of the playerbase, the ones that as I have spoke of, will not have an instant guild full of completely competent players pushing gold and pink logs ratings but instead only a couple, won’t be pushing +15 keys instantly, where class setup WILL matter, because it’s the affixs that will kill them 9 times out of 10 and the affixs -are- extremely imbalenced per-class to the people that aren’t skill-capped, aka the average player.
I think he misunderstood me or maybe I misunderstood him, where this topic is generalization of across the board, where I was speaking only in terms of the majority, since things like loot systems should be created to benefit the majority, not the upper percentile who will have all the best loot already anyways.
I don’t pvp, but have friends that do… and i agree with this. PVP gear needs to come solely from pvp… PVE gear needs to come solely from PVE. While I do agree that sometimes players need to step out of their comfort zones and experience other aspects of the game, it should be on their decision… It shouldn’t be forced. I’ve tried pvp, I don’t enjoy it at all. I won’t pvp not even for BiS gear. If Blizzard forces that like they did with some of the essenses, I’ll simply bypass it and be substandard in my output… If it really cripples my character I’ll simply log off and go to another game.
Kaivax, This will be an exciting, interesting and refreshing new (old) world, that I for one am excited for. Targeted gearing always feels good in my opinion, and requires you to work hard to achieve it.
I have a slight issue with how this is worded, as I believe it to be misleading… The Great Vault adds additional weekly loot chances (read: extra chances on top of direct loot from Boss Drops). Non-raiders do not seem to be factored in here, and even the terminology here feels reductive (as it reads, from a direct Blizzard message, as “Raiders, then everyone else”). Semantics aside, Non-raiders, as you stated, don’t have that relationship with The Great Vault. It is not additive, it is simply the only realistic gearing path (that is now shared with Raiders that opt to casual out of m+ or pvp).
Everything that was outlined in your post, below this point, is contingent on this fact.
Please consider alternative ideas in the weeks ahead. Some of those could include the following
Increase the power of dungeon-loot in a way that scales up beyond 15. To keep this from impacting Raid encounters, consider creative solutions (outlined below)
An Ilvl modifier that only applies to M+ (applied to dungeon gear dropped above M+15, that is ineffective in raid encounters)
Dungeon Sets (though, may be tricky to implement with time to release)
–
To avoid massively quick gearing, apply Diminishing Returns to dungeon-drop loot chance for each run (also, potentially to each M+ level, if you want v high ilvl gear to be very difficult to attain). DR’s resetting weekly, essentially serving as “raid reset” but for the M+ community.
Thank you for engaging on this topic with the community!
I can sympathies with this view a lot.
The so-called top percentile will always look for the short cut strategy whether that’s abusing mechanics or class stacking.
In reality even Mythic raiding is much more flexible than let’s say only War/DH running G’huun.
The problem is when these content creators make guides telling us how to play the game. Builds a skewed perception of what’s allowed in group content. What ends up happening is a group of junior raiders trying to imitate said strategy with little idea of the who/what/when/why/how and start bashing their heads wondering what when wrong.
Mistweaver monks can go the G’huun phase 2 just fine.
Considering mythic+ gives you a 226 every week and heroic raiding will never give you 226 gear it kind of does?
And, based on the original point when I wrote the OP, the loot tables in the first raid in terms of secondary stat options are trash (5 slots for mail have 1 option) and end of dungeon loot will end up better due to having better stats unless you get lucky and the 1 drop in the raid actually has your 2 best stats on it.
And getting that gear has no lockout.
And 226 mythic+ gear will probably be half or more of everyone’s BiS list when those come out for the same reasons.
Yeah, because ppl run +20s and +30s for the items, sure. Oh wait, they dont, and currently half or more of their gear is a raid drop anyways.
A 15 end of dungeon key drops 210, it should drop 213.
The end of week chest is not really valid. If you do 10 bosses in Mythic, you get 10 chances at loot, or about 2-3 total pieces. And then you also get a piece of loot the next tuesday on top.
If you do 10 +15s, you get 1 piece of loot, and only on the next tuesday.