Where? What is your direct quote that says that?
I’m looking at the engadget article, and the blue posts it references on wayback machine, and mention of a group size is nowhere to be found.
All I see is the claim that an addon manipulating the queue is unfair, which ok, fair enough. But that also hasn’t been possible for 12 years, so isn’t really relevant anymore.
Have link this several times. You will likely try to say that was only for Ashran or something, which makes no sense but that is par for the course.
Holinka has said it, then in the engadget article corroborated it by saying it is not what is intended
“You’ve made the assumption that all those things were accomplished expressly so that you could queue into battlegrounds as an organized group against disorganized opponents? That assumption is mistaken. If you want organized PvP against organized opponents, as you claim, that experience is readily available.”
The idea this is the game design and a good thing and fair is just completely illogical. It hurts the game, you are supporting an idea that hurts the game and exploits peoples time and fun.
Take a step back and figure out why you support that.
So, if this was a problem in Ashran (which was basically world PvP), why didn’t they do anything at all about people stacking 3-4 full raids in Battle for Nazjatar?
Flashback to Ruin porting in multiple raids into Battle for Naz and instantly lagging out the zone.
if there’s nobody to attack, they can’t do it?
regardless, it was just an example.
your view is blurry.
you’ve attempted to twist words in to what you want them to mean.
so… your chance of being an extra in the “cHeAtInG” team and getting an efficient win, is just as good on either faction.
That isn’t a solution. Telling players they should just afk after they joined a bg is like telling a kid to just give a bully their money so they leave them alone.
I gave you a very honest response and this is all you can come back with? What a waste of time.
We been asking them to do something about premades for 20 years. They do nothing.
They need to just run a test with solo que only BG’s with no grouping possible and see how it goes.
Those were good times.
For those who want Evidence…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JGEDU8IhSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPKMN_ZnUPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDyrgsqngw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyxOitubgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnFUzcEZhK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0pgsxrdzOw
This is what it looks like. Imagine being a Solo Queuer against these groups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWs2-z2flc4
This one above around 27:05 you can hear “Queue, hit buttons” That’s when they sync.
At 27:43 you can hear, “everyone out” where they all drop the queue.
Then they wait 2 minutes for the BG that popped to have started before requeuing.
At 31:00 they requeue again
At 33:50 They pop and you hear “That’s 16 and we’re gonna take” Meaning they just got 16 guaranteed in the same BG. And “There’s still 20+ in queue” “We only have 25 at the moment”
At 36:25 you can hear the remaining 25 who were still in Queue that they popped and got 21 into a Wintergrasp Defense.
This is just 1 of the community, there’s like 4 main ones and a cross-faction that’s a mix of a little bit of everyone.
Freaking voice comms and 10 addons dedicated to just pvp…in an unrated epic bg…
When I was running premades, we had maybe 2 addons and no voice comms at all. Maybe a couple raid warnings and that was it. What a 
show. SMH.
At some point blizz just needs to go all Plunderstorm on wow’s pvp scene. It’ll end up being the only way to salvage what has become a giant cluster.
The Crosshair addon is to tell everyone who is the kill target, they have mandatory assist macro and targets XD
Don’t get me wrong, this type of PVP is awesome when done in a Wargame 40v40. But it has no place in Randoms.
Resident elitist GD forum troll. Everyone is better off by just ignoring the guy, his alts and his terrible discussion points.
We are not the target audience for Rated, which requires a premade group.
The partial solution for this is already in place: BG Blitz.
It already breaks sync queuing because people are split regardless of faction, but opens the mode up for match fixing.
A very simple adjustment that would solve A LOT of issues on sync queuing: add a random hidden internal delay of 0-30 seconds for anyone (player or group) joining a BG queue.
Timing can be adjusted based on the frequency of the queue.
It could even be made higher for premade groups specifically (30-60s) just to ensure the solo players get to play with other solo players more often.
I’d take the downside of an extra minute of wait (even 10 TBH) for more even games.
Also, a lot of people aren’t really getting the topic:
It isn’t simply about fighting premades.
It’s about fighting RAID premades composed of multiple groups of players abusing the queue system by queuing at the same time, thus bypassing the limitation on groups imposed by the random BG finder tool.
My proposed adjustment would improve on both areas though.
Either stomping or being stomped isn’t fun gameplay for most people who actually enjoy a fair fight, which all forms of PvP in every game, digital or not, should be based on.
Damn even Blizz is allowing this then. Guess I’ll join premades again. Poor Pugs, they’re about to never win ever again. The new Meta is Queue Sync everyone. Let’s all make big communities and bring raids… wait sorry I mean bring multiple Party of 5 into the same BG.
Actually I’ll go back to Multiboxing 25 characters and queue sync in BGs then I can manually control and try to win with my whole team.
Looks like It’s Free for all!
The dude’s a mythic raider who has participated in most endgame activities and their arguments are based on personal experience. Why is it that the moment that someone has personal experience and the merits to back it up, that’s all it takes to be labeled an elitist … ?
This entire thread, and the multiples that the like trio or quadruple trolls primarily part of making these threads, is just flat out wrong. Calling someone a “resident elitist troll” doesn’t change that.
If these people actually cared about that then they’d be playing rated BGs. Larger BGs, whether open world or instanced, has ALWAYS been unfair and poorly balanced.
This thread is just folks complaining about that they lost (or I guess lose since they keep coming back) and can’t get over it. What they are calling an exploit has been explicitly pointed out as allowed and any reasonable attempts to limit it would require such extremes as trying to ban people from playing with friends, banning communication between players, or other extremely invasive and anti-social measures.
In a MMO.
Where a huge part of the game is the social dynamic.
What they are whining about is allowed, and should remain to be allowed. If nothing else because it is impossible to reasonably even limit it. And with it having no real negative implications, there’s not even a problem that needs fixing to begin with.
Referring to folks making these arguments based on sane logical deduction, blue posts, and reality … that doesn’t make someone an elitist.
Epic BGs have always been, for all intents and purposes, a free for all.
Where the hell have you been for the past 19 years to not know this about WoW PvP…?
You’re being naive if you think that’s what it’s about.
Yeah, he is a mythic raider, and he is a complete 4$$ to anyone who isn’t “at his level”, or disagrees with him, regardless of the merits of the discussion or arguments. Not to mention this is about solo play in PvP.
Being a mythic raider isn’t a license to mistreat people.
Do you know someone else who is just as qualified, if not more, that knows how to have civilized conversations with other forum posters? Hpellipsis
They shouldn’t be, and they were never that unbalanced. That’s the point of the topic.
Rated BGs also imply premade grouping, which we don’t want /nor should need to have, since most games with online PvP modes can ensure a degree of fairness with some mechanic, most being MMR, which is why I said BG Blitz partially solves the issue.
If you can’t see how obviously bad premade stacking is for random PvP BGs, there is no talking to you.
Not a excuse, a fact. Also please don’t assume you know what I did and didn’t. Reading your comment one needs to assume that the writer of it never did any PvP, or at the very least never did try to run BGs with a fresh max level toon that then had to face off against people in full arena gear.
I’ve previously adressed this statement by vrak. I still maintain that he was not giving the go ahead for 40 man premades to queue into 5 man content. See my previous response from the BG forum below:
I don’t know how much experience you have with the blues, but it is relatively common for them to cherry pick certain aspects of a post to comment on without addressing the thread itself. They do it all the time in the CS forum. Which, judging by the wording on vraks post, would also seem to indicate.
Again, I just don’t see his post as explicitly acknowledging mass pre-made sync queues. Which is what the OP of that thread was actually talking about.
Basically it boils down to that post being wide open to interpretation. So I don’t think it can be relied upon to prove blizzs stance on the issue either way.
What people really need is a proper post on it just like they did for multiboxers when they finally addressed that issue. Prior to that, you could also find similar blue responses re multiboxers as they tap danced around the issue for many years. For many years prior, pro multiboxers arguers would often cite the fact that blizz hadn’t explicitly commented on the issue or done anything about it as proof positive that blizzs stance on it was that it was a grey area they were unwilling to do anything about. That is, until they did. Then all those people had to shut up. I still remember the rage threads posted by said individuals as their new reality came crashing down upon them. They were very angry.
My guess is the reason why they haven’t properly addressed the issue is the same reason it took them so many years to address the multiboxers. They’re waiting for the issue to get to such a critical mass, that they have no choice but to deal with it. I suspect premades are rapidly approaching said mass. But who knows. I don’t have access to the raw numbers.
First off, great post.
Second, this should 100% be bannable. Mass organized leaving matches that are already in progress completely destroy the experience for the players who were not apart of the group and didn’t leave.
Yea, it’s pretty unreal how serious they are taking this. This is so much more than just a group of ‘friends’ playing together. They are actively and intentionally being disruptive.
So in that case than I’m the expert based off my experience and achievements. Solid.
This is a lie. You should just stop posting in this thread on that alone.
BGs are random. You would get some unfair ones, but most of the times the matches were pretty evenly matched.
YOU KNOW HOW I KNOW? Because I have a 61% win rate in bgs after 1,000’s of matches played. I’m one player, but I’m still able to have an impact. These premades disrupt that. It doesn’t matter how good you are as a solo player.
The multiboxers said the same thing. Weird. How is that crowd doing these days?
Lol the irony.
Yet I have 2200 arena achievements and the Vanquisher title.
I have played above 1800 and 2k on multiple Alts
So you would be 100% wrong.
I have done the honor grind multiple on multiple Alts against people in full conq gear.
I also get honor gear and Que into those people with full conq gear.
They are usually awful and get baited behind pillars
All in all you should probably look at peoples chexkpvp before making terrible assumptions.
I have had several conversations with him and disagreed with him. No, the dude seems to just dislike intellectual dishonesty. If you can make a coherent argument, even if it is one they have stated something that is contrary to their position, civility continues.
Which they ain’t.
Being snarky on a forum like this one ain’t mistreating people.
It is just as bad as when people go and do a PvP world quest as a group. They are intended to be doable solo, but has no inference or requirement that they have to be done solo. No matter how frustrating it is to the player, a player CANNOT be punished for playing together with their friends and not circumventing anything in-game.
And no, merely communicating with other players is not circumventing anything.
Doesn’t matter how much ya’ll have made the choice to view this as a personal slight towards you; it is clearly allowed by Blizzard and it would be utter insanity to even attempt to ban it anyways.
If you don’t see why banning “talking to friends” would be categorically insane, then that’s where the real problem lies.
Neat.
What other system than merely talking with each other and communicating which queues to accept was he referring to then? We have multiple blue posts at this point confirming this.
You can pretend otherwise, but if you are gonna do that you are gonna have to back that up with a blue post. Not a personal opinion.
Yes. You are far more qualified than me to speak on matters relating to rated PvP.
Epic BGs aren’t rated, and your takes run head first into problems relating on even basics such as “how would you even limit this without banning the ability to play with premades to begin with.”
Because every single suggestion reads extremely aloud of “I have no idea what I’m saying and I have no idea what the word ‘consequences’ mean.” If you ban people’s ability to play with friends, which is what you are still arguing for, then you are just making a really stupid argument.
If you are arguing that it is an exploit, too bad. Multiple blue posts disagree with you. It isn’t an exploit. The end.
Oh please tell me… how balanced were the mess between Tarren Mill and Southshore back in the day? Why does the Mountaineer have the highest killrate of any NPC in ALL OF WOW’s history?
Start with those two.
Guess what: this is my point.
You are a rated BG player. Not a random BG player.
Your experience is that of someone who think this matters when it doesn’t. For some, unexplainable ungodly reason, you are trying to argue that there should be “fairness and balance” in a mode that is best described by a categorical history of imbalances and a “herd of raging kittens following the lead kitten” … You don’t get it.
Flat out. You don’t get it that none of this matters.
None of it.
The only argument that one could debate is whether it is an exploit or not and guess what. That has been settled since the 31st of December, 2007. And it has been reaffirmed since then.
This isn’t an exploit. It is allowed. None of this matters. And even if it did trying to ban it would be neigh on impossible to do so without killing off any interest in random BGs whether epic or not.
Hm? Multiboxers still exist to this day.
The hell are you on about?
The only ones who were banned were people who were using programs to send code to multiple accounts at the same time. Are you now shifting your argument of “It isn’t a bunch of premades but in reality there’s just one dude who has like 40 multiboxed accounts and they are using the programs that allow you to send multiple inputs to multiple accounts at the same time”?
If so then yes it is in fact against ToS. Because that’s an entirely different thing.