You can’t prove a negative, and unless there’s near universal support for it (which in WoW, there isn’t) … you kinda need numbers or a reason to think something has overwhelming support for something.
So presenting actual numbers to something that people don’t want is neigh on impossible, unless it is in relation to folks who want something. Which, that already skews statistics which is why you need several thousands of people to make estimates for tens or hundreds of people.
So no, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. The claim that gets repeated is that “Player housing is wanted by a majority of players” when… there’s not much to indicate that. There’s tons and tons to indicate that folks are indifferent or have a different more communal mentality (see the popularity of the class order hall and covenants (what folks disliked about the covenants was that we were railroaded into picking ones for the abilities, not the actual covenants themselves)).
So… are there even numbers about this, at all?
Well… you are the ones making the claim after all. So… do you have numbers on this or not?
anyone that starts out pretending they speak for the masses who havent said a word to them gets a very high spot on my joke list, lol.
The self congratulatory behavior is fine IF one can prove themselves without ‘go look for yourself’ hoaxes…otherwise its just pathetic.
Successfully running a business for nearly 40 years now. Not one customer complaint in all these years other than a group maybe 8 years ago who couldnt decide who made the decisions for the company…and I dropped them,they didnt drop me.
This guy comes in railing on against housing, thats fine, but he should have kept it at that instead of trying to sound like he knows how to run a business and THAT is the argument against housing. lmao. Its not.
Again, they took a chance and gave us dragonriding and it turned out to be a huge success.
Saying that housing, done right, wont do the same is naivety at its finest
Exactly.
I will say that I do love my garrisons once I get them all set up. Im not personally screaming for housing, but to say it cant be done right and no one will use it is just asinine. We farm mogs and pets…we’ll use the housing lol
you do know how to read, right son? lmao.
i didnt say ONE SINGLE WORD about numbers.
WHAT I DID SAY…since you missed it as well…is that they took a chance on dragonriding and it has been a huge success.
WRONG.
This guy pretty much said no one wants housing.
YOU CANT MAKE THAT ASSERTION WITHOUT POLLING THE BASE…PERIOD.
DATA PLEASE
So either he HAS the data…or he DOESNT.
yeah…it is…for the reason above.
youre working your way to that ignore list yourself to be quite honest.
Im not getting paid to give you all attention in here.
You can’t prove a negative in the sense that you can’t prove something doesn’t exist.
In this case, the claim was made that there are numbers indicating the majority don’t want player housing.
Just because the word “don’t” is in there, doesn’t mean it’s a negative that you can’t prove.
In this case, you absolutely can prove that the majority don’t want something, if such a survey was taken and found that to be the case. Such a thing hasn’t happened, of course, at least not to my knowledge, but it 100% is a claim that can, and needs to be, proven, if it’s expected to be accepted as truth.
As it stands, I don’t think anyone has necessarily made the claim that the majority wants it, they’ve only 1) stated what they want, 2) stated that nobody was asking for dragonriding and they still added it), and 3) asked for proof of the claim that the majority doesn’t want it.
Neither side will be able to prove a majority unless Blizzard actually releases a concrete player base number. Till then, all anyone can go by are general topics of discussion they have seen or have access to such as forums, Social media, and ingame chats.
There’s no indication that players are indifferent to player housing. Or that a communal mentality would be detrimentally impacted by the addition of Player housing. In fact it can be a boon to the community as players come together to farm content for particular decorations. Visit each other’s houses. Hold get togethers. Hold style contests. There’s all kinds of community activities that can be generated via player housing.
That was one aspect people hated, another was lore, aesthetic and general lack of options and direction beyond the main four. Like I loved the look of Ardenweald…but hated the lore and looks of all the others. Venthyr just felt like Vampires from Wish. Bastion just did not jive with me…and Maldraxxus was just ugly to me.
lmao…dude doesnt even comprehend what a ‘negative’ in that context is, lol.
This is about DATA, not the lack of existence of god that there isnt any testing available for.
polling CAN be done for who wants housing or not.
Clearly HASNT been done by the poster making the claim
he has no data to back his assertion that only a few want housing.
Secondly, he has no data showing that the majority wont like housing if done right.
Dragonriding was a shot in the dark…they did it hoping it would succeed.
MANY businesses take that same risk…literally how business works…doing something you THINK will succeed given either hard data or even a good guess, lol
AND…quite literally, there was a stink in here before DF with people saying that dragonriding was a waste of time, better spent on other parts of the game.
VERY mixed emotions in here back before the beta and DF went live.
and its been a huge success.
Factually no majority is required to like housing anyway.
Do the majority like Vulpera? Zandalari? Pandaren?
I doubt it.
And here we are. time spent making the races to give the game more content, more to do, more color and personality.
thats all housing will be for…to give players something else to do in game.
and I dont believe for a second that a single one in here complaining about it, like they do flight, wont USE housing the second its available. lol
They always hate on the stuff, then theyre busted doing it. lmao Like the LFR haters do
Factually THEY made the numbers claim as I quoted above.
Either he polled the base and has the numbers or he pulled this out of a hozens rump and its a meaningless assertion with nothing backing it up.
Also factual that a majority isnt required for blizzard to put time investment into anything put in game.
Not all the races are played by the majority. Coming out with the new earthen race that I dont think you could find 100 players saying they asked for. lol.
business literally is about risk…about taking risks
Blizzard took a chance on dragonriding. They literally didnt know if they were taking it forward or not because they were waiting on player response.
Housing would be no different.
If it bombs, it’ll go the way of the garrison.
If it succeeds, boom…I’ll be logged in farming crap for it quite a lot.
On that, I dont think Ion has concluded that we wont use housing.
I think from what Ive gleaned is that Ion thinks we want ESO housing where you can move everything around inch by inch or nothing at all, so hes decided the game isnt capable of that and it would take a LONG time to be able to do.
I think if we can convince him that we would gladly take housing like the garrison with fixed points all over to place stuff, that maybe he would agree that yes, housing could be done and yes, enough casual players will be lining up to use it.
as a side note, I wont be responding to those who are just being argumentative for arguments sake in here.
Points have been made. I dont need to keep repeating them to prove anything to anyone seeking attention.
Implicitly, the only ones I have ever seen actively or even passively talk about player housing in WoW are on these forums. Folks who talk on these forums are per definition a minority.
So unless you have something to back up your implicit statement, they aren’t wrong. Although it is also with the caveat that it doesn’t mean that there’s a huge number of people who actively want there to not be player housing in the game. Most folks are just ambivalent about it.
I don’t care. Either act in good faith or don’t, but if all you can do is to say “You might go onto my ignore list” then… why should I care? You are one out of many folks with perfectly ordinary takes and opinions, whom also can’t make coherent arguments. Something very common on these forums so I don’t say that as a personal attack, just that…
Why should I care if you put me on your ignore list or not?
… you are getting paid to be on these forums?
See above for what I mentioned to Liolang.
And this is my point except you have reversed it. In order to ascertain a positive claim about something, evidence is needed for that claim. One can extrapolate that there’s a minority of players asking for player housing, even if one can’t extrapolate whether it is a majority that actively don’t want it or are just publically silent and/or ambivalent towards it.
You can make an estimation that eludes towards the number of people who actively want player housing like that of in other MMOs in WoW are a minority. For the reason I gave earlier to Liolang. Furthermore there’s a lot of logical arguments that would indicate that there’s nothing intrinsic that would make WoW more popular with player housing akin to that of other MMOs. Thus at best … making this a moot point.
This is a false dichotomy. Dragonriding came to WoW as a direct result of two things:
WoW have had a problem with flying due to how badly and negatively it impacts the game making it smaller, emptier, and far too convenient for a MMO. Thus requiring a solution.
At the same time flying is fun when done correctly which it wasn’t in WoW (which we know for a fact since the most common argument folks make against Dragonriding says that mounts should only be to go from point A to point B). When comparing how flying is done in other games (MMOs and single player games), they saw a system that they thought would work and made it work for WoW.
This is basic game design: iterating on systems and ideas that work, and especially when those endproducts also can solve egregious systematic issues that plagues the game.
You and I have already talked about this before and my stance isn’t changing on this. Heck you could even see my point when I pointed out the problems with player housing for a game like WoW, and why player housing in a traditional sense is unlikely to work in WoW.
Can’t help but feel I’m being attacked for being logical and not just immediately responding when someone responds. Can I make a cup of hot chocolate in peace before responding to folks?
Furthermore, false-flagging nonsense is just annoying - so I don’t get why you or anyone else would be amused by it.
Trade chat, general chat, LFR, raid, guilds, a larger push on it to be overall on social media, and many more places.
These forums are kinda … weird. Because they are about and for WoW but, because of how badly infested they are with trolls and have been so since their inception … not to mention that it has gotten so bad that most of the game’s community managers have quit specifically because of how bad these forums were…
There’s a reason why Blizzard references Wowhead more than these forums. The only time ever that Blizzard themselves uses these forums are to post polls or to have an official documented place where posts goes up. They try occasionally to use these forums to post and talk about things but, a lot of those threads tend to get 404’d because of bigotry, extremism, harassment, and more.
My point is largely this:
Nothing on these forums is really indicative of the general playerbase … it is mostly just a place folks go to read crazy things and try to have conversations in vein. There’s a subset of people whose personality matrix makes this a perfectly fine place to be but… for most of the time, this place isn’t indicative of any kind of ‘general’ thoughts people have.
… which is both unfortunate and a god-send at the same time (not so much in reference to this thread but in reference to many worse threads that pop up every so often).
I didn’t mention anybody so you can’t say “I’m being attacked”. What you doing however is playing victim. So I’ll give you a smiley to brighten your day.
Also, you are absolutely correct. False flagging is rather annoying. And you know what the denizens of this forum did?
They voiced their false flag tactics on not one, but TWO threads that didn’t violate the CoC. One of them was mine.
At the end of the day, the forums continue doing what they’re good at: Remaining in shambles.
And I will continue to believe that your stance is incorrect. As I have seen how popular Housing systems are in other MMOs. No matter what you say to try and claim otherwise, no one is going to be convinced by your stance. I do wish you well though, even if we don’t agree on this.
