He didn’t confirm that, though. He just said she won’t be “just another raid boss.” That doesn’t mean she won’t be a raid boss at all, or that her story won’t end soon.
He specifically states we aren’t done exploring her story. Couple that with “Won’t just be another raid boss” and it’s pretty clear we aren’t killing her anytime soon if at all ever.
She’ll probably do something Heroic with the dagger and be magically forgiven by everyone for committing genocide and all sorts of other war crimes.
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That’s always a disgusting possibility.
Yeah, the expansion isn’t over yet. If she’s going to be the final boss, she’s got a couple more patches to “explore.” Saying her story isn’t over is basically meaningless, because of course you can’t call it over while she’s still alive (undead).
He also refused to say that we wouldn’t be fighting her. My bet is that he means she’s going to be the final boss of the expansion and she won’t be “just another raid boss”–she’ll be the epic boss whose death ushers in the return of the Black Empire, or something like that.
But I feel like we’ve had this conversation before … have we?
Maybe? I’ve had this conversation with a lot of people.
Well, why don’t you find the idea of her being the final epic boss convincing, then?
ETA: It’s the wording “just another raid boss” that makes me suspicious. If he meant we wouldn’t be fighting her, he could have said that a lot more clearly.
Because Alex has already expressed that he’s very invested in the character. Proudly boasting having been writing about her for over 6 years.
And Steve Danuser, a senior writer, is so in love his Undead Banshee Waifu that he re-purposed her champion to be his self insert character to be as close to her as possible.
I won’t believe that she’s getting anything other than a perfect happy ending ala Kerrigan or Grommash at the end of WoD until WoWhead posts a PTR video of her death cinematic.
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Just because a character gets killed doesn’t mean that they can’t keep “telling the character’s story”.
See: Vol’jin, Illidan, etc.
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You think so? I’m guess she’ll probably betray the Horde in a major way at some point; which is why they’re fast-tracking Nathanos to have enough development to not only replace her as the Forsaken faction leader (but he’ll also probably turn on her as well at some point).
There is a reason they are deliberately keeping whatever motives she has for this war close to the chest; and the only hints we have on those “True Objectives” are that she genuinely believed that Saurfang would turn against her eventually, and that entities like Elune were likely to oppose her.
“Today smoke rose from my campfire and took form.”
“A Shepard, cloaked in the shadows of her past, beloved by a flock of blind sheep”.
“They followed her footsteps without question. Without thought.”
“She guided them over a cliff. Even as they crashed upon the rocks, they never doubted her.”
“The crows grew fat upon sheep flesh. Her laughter echoed all around.”
I vote they keep “telling Baine and Jaina’s story” next.
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Sums up Sylvanas fans pretty well. That last bit.
But you and I have been over this before. I dont buy that Nathanos is being built up for Forsaken Leader. I think he’s just Danusers toy for getting up snuggly with Sylvanas in his ow n head and the rest of us have to watch like when the two socially awkward kids start dating in High School.
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Have you played the Horde side of BfA? Outside of him being an ornery git, there hasn’t been any real pushing of Nathanos and Sylvanas romantic relationship. The dude also (while being a curmudgeon) is an equal opportunity curmudgeon, and actually works better with the other races of the Horde than Sylvanas ever did. The dude is actually pretty functional.
We had this discussion before, but this “self-insert” Nathanos argument really did not really seem to appear until after his performance in Darkshore (and I felt I was pretty clear his performance is more a factor of there being no-one on the Horde capable of giving Tyrande a challenge; than some Dev power fantasy). Any of our leaders put in that position would have been handled similarly.
The writers aren’t about to let the Alliance instakill what few representatives we have left; even though the MASSIVE power imbalance between the Horde and Alliance would certainly allow characters like Malf & Tyrande to do so. We as a faction are not capable of allowing Tyrande to show off her full power … we’re too weak to even properly do what Blizz wants from us in this war.
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Pretty much what i’v always said. ‘Oh they had a past relationship and Sylvanas is very obviously and sinisterly emotionally manipulating that personal relationship towards her own ends! that means it’s a self insert character right?’
Not really, more then anything this seems like a torch taken up by people who don’t like Blightcallers attitude and want to denigrate the character with accusations built on sand.
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This is an interesting point that’s probably worth it’s own thread. There’s no one on the Horde other than Sylvanas who can face the huge roster of GOD powerlevel Alliance leaders. Therefore, stupid things happen like Super-Tyrande losing to trash mobs.
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This thread dates from before Tyrande’s power-up, so the issue has only gotten worse since then.
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Yup, it’s too bad no one has ever made a thread about it. Someone probably should.
I sped through it on my Belf Paladin cause I was hyped to make a Zandalari Paladin and start enjoying being catered to. But they’re dragging out the release of Zandas and Kul’tirans so long that I lost interest. So I never finished the 8.0 war campaign. But people have been calling Nathanos a self insert since Legion. Danuser doesn’t help when he Tweets about how looking at Nathanos is like looking into a mirror and diary entries about talking the big Sylvanas Statue in the Blizz HQ. He probably gets her voice actress to say things that are against ToS to him.
The Darkshore quests were supposed to show that the Kaldorei aren’t playing around anymore. That they’re retaking Darkshore and there’s nothing the Horde can throw at them to stop it from happening.
Instead we got to watch our newly powered up 10 thousand year long High Priestess and Champion of Elune be trivialized by Nathanos and some floating goth girls we’ve never seen before while they raise two of our newest named Night Elves and complete all of their objectives without losing anything of any real consequence save for one back up floating goth girl.
If we had to lose Sira and Delaryn bottom line then they should have barely escaped with the Horde PC and someone they’re willing to let die with both Valks should have been in Nathanos place. Instead of everyone being allowed to make an escape on some easily shot down slow moving bats.
Quoting you too cause I usually enjoy your input.
I understand the Kaldorei player-base is hurting, but I’ve always felt like the contention with their representation with the Alliance is more of the source of their grievances, than with the Horde; which I think even you can admit that we’ve been given an equally raw deal. Heck, I’d put money on it being Summermoon (as a Sylvie mirror) or Tyrande who ultimately gets to take Sylvie’s final extra life; rather than one of us Hordies … we’ll be lucky just not to lose too many of our remaining characters.
We’re never allowed to have a victory we can be proud of (unless you’re one of those “play evil” Hordies, which really is a smaller faction of our playerbase). We’re constantly put in positions that remind us that we’re too weak (FAR TOO WEAK) to be doing what Blizz is expecting of us on a storytelling level. And once again we’re stuck being the antagonists in a Faction War we’re CONSTANTLY told we have no chance of ever winning; unless the Alliance pulls their punches hard.
The Horde spent just as much time in Legion being irrelevant (or working with people who downright talk down to us) as the Kal’dorei. Hell, Baine was supposed to have a strong presence in Highmountain and was cut; rendering our ONLY real contribution to the Zone stories being Stormheim and Sylvanas (which was just a personal chore for her, rather than anything Legion related). For real Blizz? SHE led us to victory against the Legion? She barely existed!
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I get the frustration with Tyrande and Darkshore, on the other hand like…what’s the solution there that doesn’t take away from Darkshore questing? It takes two to tango, and Darkshore was supposed to throw the Horde into panic mode which means someone big has to get involved. If some chump from the nameless horde of NPCs gets used which neither adds to the Horde players introduction to Darkshore or conveys Tyrandes power in any meaningful capacity, or we need to throw a name out there that can kind of hold their own.
Of the full Sylvanas loyalists, it’s either Nathanos or…Nathanos. Everyone else is pretty mundane and wouldn’t have an easier time of it then he would. So they take him, empower him with two Val’kyr, and have him live just long enough to rez Sira nd Summermoon. Hell, do you seriously think that if both Val’kyr died it would of changed the community reaction? the outrage sourced from the belief that unlike Nathanos the Val’kyr were ‘irrelevant’ to the story, the offense was that Nathanos lived at all.
And no matter what, Sira and Summermoon had to be taken away from the fight, that was non-negotiable from a narrative standpoint. Mind you I don’t like that, I would of preferred if they just failed outright, but with so much anger from the community from their resurrection…the unfortunate reality is that’s obvious the story wants them to play a prominent role in the future.
It might be upsetting, but there is literally no other way that could of played out without making the scenario even worse. No way besides Blizzard scrapping Summermoon and Sira’s resurrection entirely, but Blizzard is going to do what Blizzard does, and next patch we’re already chasing Velenora’s Dark Ranger pupils through Trisfal Glades.
The game was rigged from the start, no matter how much outrage we vomited on them, it was likely this plotpoint was setup since the start of the expansion.
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I agree with pretty much all you just said, but I still feel there had to be some way to get through that event without having to give Nathanos the thickest Plot Armor in the history of WoW.
Even with two Valkyr and the PC at his side, he would have been no match for normal Tyrande and Malfurion. Now he’s up against Night Warrior Tyrande and hella-ticked off Malfurion… Watching him survive with no injuries other than being mildly annoyed he lost a Valkyr was just… insulting.
I think what should have happened was to raise Sira and Delaryn off-screen. Tyrande and Malfurion find the PC, Nathanos, and the Valkyr exposed and attack. Tyrande and Malfurion are near victory and have already downed a Valkyr when Delaryn and Sira show up and surprise them. Though they arent enough to beat Tyrande and Malfurion, the shock and horror of seeing them raised and working with Nathanos is enough to buy time for them to make their escape.
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