This is the biggest problem. Everyone re-rolls to Warrior because everyone says “Warriors are invincible and cannot die”
Well if that’s the case, why is the top Warrior only 150io ahead of the top Bear?
Competent tank > FoTM reroller every time
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You know the OP’s capability, ok, but how do they know ? Maybe he timed the keys in the easy weeks, or maybe he can time the key in his specific team, or maybe he got lucky strike with RNG after 1000 fails? You know but they dont, why should they put trust in some random bears, who have high chance to fail than others ?
You dont need to run statisics to know survival hunter sucks, right ? Would you invite a survive hunter over rogue or enhance shaman with similar rio and ilvl ?
Not just informed by sims, news about the ranking, you play with then a few times to see how the underdoga actually perform in compariso to the topdogs. Not once I invited underperformed spec players with good rios for easy keys, since even with 1 low dps/heal, the key could be easily time, 99% of time I was disappointed by dps. You dont need statistics to know priests, hpal, mw and more likely to not able to handle the healing intensive fights in comparison to restodruid, or prevoker, do you ?
Then why should I invite them for keys that I want to time ?
I play only tanks, I dont play dps and heal. But my experience of playing with heal and dps knows what heal and dps specs I should invite and what I should avoid.
All dps or heal have experience with all tanks this season. If they have good experience with bears they will invite bears no matter what. Unfortunately, it’s not the case here.
If you still remember how MM hunters were pre 10.0.5 or pre-patch boomkins, they were ranked at B or C tier by all known tier lists, . However, they were ones of the most demanded dps in live keys. It was because their performance proved everything.
Bears were ranked pretty high at the start of the season, it’s just by time, people realised bear sucked.
Community perception isnt based on mere tier list, it’s from players’ own experience. And for random strangers who they may never meet again in future, there is no reason for them to invite a “high risk to fail” class.
People and their tier lists, its similar wirh Feral. Some weeks I get insta invites usually for soothes. Recently however I heard from a few guild mates about the “Druid Law” and supposedly druids are now the new bad player class, especially if you play balance. Basically if you bring an orange to your key its almost a for sure the Druid is going to be a terrible player.
People on the internet can be really cruel. I havent tanked anything higher than a 16 and I plan to keep it that way because the higher the key the higher the toxicity. From 16s and 17s my Guardian druid feels fine, I enjoy doing over 150k dps on some cleave pulls. I cant speak for 20s though.
I don’t know the OP personally, I’ve never played with them before. They can know in the same way I can, if they feel they need to look further. A very casual glance at their Blizzard armory profile shows the runs they’ve been on, who they ran with, and what the affixes are. If they’ve timed +22’s with that variety of folks, they probably know what they’re doing.
As far as affixes go, knowledge is king, not class… for the most part. Necrotic is gone so heavy class preference is a bit downplayed and, as a Guardian Druid, they are actually well equipped to handle affixes such as Spiteful and Sanguine.
That’s all gleaned from the profile in less time than it took me to write this post. If I want to go further, I can inspect Raider IO.
If I have a 2800 RIO survival hunter applying to my group for 2500ish content, yea actually. Out of curiosity more than anything lol. But for real, that survival hunter probably has a better idea of how to play their class and what the game mechanics are than any other class with similar rating. So-called meme classes have to work harder, end of story.
Again, the player in question has proven themselves, demonstrating clearly via their rating that they can handle the content in question. If a MW applies to my group and has higher rating than I do, yea, they can probably handle the key.
Worth mentioning that at the +20 level, which is reasonably high, I should be able to have a quick conversation prior to the key dropping to ensure I know what they need, if anything.
Ultimately, you invite who you want, but there’s really no valid reason for you to pass over a 2800 rated Guardian Druid for a +20 key. Especially because they’re a tank. It’s not like your list is gonna be full of tanks when you list a group. You are deliberately waiting for a more meta class, for no reason.
Keys 16, 20 are usually filled up pretty fast with overgeared and over-rio players, who want to farm specific items/primal focus or just to weekly vault cap. I guess it was the reason for a 2.8k rio to queue for a key 20. If you can pick a 2.8k prot and 2.8k bear, which one you will choose ?
That is an if. You are expecting players who timed 3 key levels higher than you want to play with you. Be realistic! The ones who apply for your keys, except the 16s-17s and 20s, have around the same rio and ilvl needed for that key.
The bear. He put in more work for that rating and is likely the better player.
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Yes, because he has the relevant experience and skills. And for this week, hunters can have soothe.
Plus experienced off spec > FoTM reroller
I cannot agree with this more. The meta mentality makes the game miserable. Personally, I make it a point to invite specs that don’t get a lot of play. More often than not, I am pleasantly surprised.
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So there’s this thing about relevant non-meta specs. They have something to prove. They will be trying harder. They tend to do better due to previous sentence
Most importantly… they typically tend to not be giant Douchebags.
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This is how blizzard designs druids currently. You cant do anything to change the current state or the community perception. If you enjoy guardian, play your own keys, and make friends with some healers who dont mind.
You don’t understand how community perception works and comes about do you? Lol
Stop talking crap about things, speak good about them, and eventually good experiences, good reviews, good perception
I agree with this and some acknowledgment that it is more difficult to increase rating on a bear than other tanks is nice as well
This is by far the most positive outlook I have seen on these forums and certainly a healthy way to look at any problem. The power of positivity is something that should not be underestimated. However for some of us who do not possess such a positive healthy outlook we think it will take more than a good attitude to improve mitigation on higher keys.
That’s where the good experiences come in - you don’t think the OP is 2.8k and fails 20 keys regularly do you?
Fix it for you.
This is actually more of an issue with how io works than anything. 150 io from 3200-3400 should be looked at like a chess rating. That small amount of rating is the same as looking at difference between a true 500 to 2800 score.
Notice I don’t say player because I think those players are most likely equal skill and that the bear would be as high as or higher than the warrior if they were playing warrior.
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I mean. 2800 is all 20s timed with a few 22s peppered in. I’m sure they still occasionally fail 20s.
I’m pushing 2600 and I still have some 16s in my back pocket. I’ll push 2720 (all 20s) for sure, but pugging is also a factor to success for me on top of bear weakness/stigma.
But the difference is only 1-2 key levels is what I’m getting at. For Bear being as bad as they are, you’d expect them to be further behind than just one key level
Occasionally yes. On average though? I doubt it. I’m sure the bigger mistakes that cause wipes come from the 2500io DPS who have timed a single 20 CoS
This is a such a bs take. If three players of the same io/gear apply and you are purposefully taking classes with less utility and survivability in 20+ you are actively trying to destroy your key.
I’m not a meta chaser by any means, but you’re being contrarian just because at this point.
If three equal healers applied to heal me and they were evoker pally priest I am taking the evoker every time because the spec plays best with mine. I’m taking an enhance for windfury over a hunter for soothe as I can soothe. You are just arguing to argue.
If they’re all even, Hunter is the way to go. Especially last week with Tranquil Shot. Plus everyone likes to mention how “with another class it’s easier to do the same thing”. So off specs work harder to achieve the same results according to that philosophy, so they’d be the ones to actually try harder in your key.
That’s fine. Between me and an Evoker getting over 70 enrage dispels together in a run, and knowing there’s still mobs who don’t get dispelled.
Yes group composition matters. If there’s only one person who can dispel enrage buffs (me), and I have the choice of Shaman, Rogue, and Hunter, all of equal ilvl and io, I’m taking the Hunter because having 3-4 mobs enraged at a time is gonna drop a tank in a hurry, or DPS if a cleave gets turned the wrong way