#nochanges to PvP! Include CRBGs

This isn’t an easy opinion for me to have…for a few reasons.

Wasn’t false at all. I had 50-70 minute WSG queues prior to CRBGs on my alliance warlock.

(Edit: doesn’t need to be ‘very fast;’ all it needs to be is a lot faster than previously for people to want it. I mis-read your post a bit initially.)

This is true, though; I thoroughly enjoyed playing against people on my own server.

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Knowing what it was like for people to wait over an hour (or hours) in a BG queue to the point that some people would be doing level 60 dungeons and then join a BG in the middle (or even towards the end), I think it would be nice to have.

Even if it’s confined to battlegroups with a smaller server pool for each group so you see the same people frequently, it would improve queues.

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no, no its not… CRBG’s are the main reason WPVP died.

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Good riddance imo

This just isn’t true at all.

WPvP was big in TBC despite no longer having the old ranking system + having flying + having CRBG’s. I still remember a decent amount on my server in WotLK as well, but by Cata we out numbered the other side by a really large amount and by MoP we never saw any of them anymore.

WPvP died at different rates on different servers. It depended entirely on that individual servers community. Faction balance got progressively worse on 90% of PvP servers to the point that most became completely one sided or on some servers like Illidan, it got so bad you wouldn’t even see members of the other faction for weeks at a time because they had all left.

Faction balance was 99.99% responsible for the decline of WPvP on any given server. It just happened in different expansions on different servers.


Some one is bout to chime in with how amazing CRBG’s are, and how it fixes everything…


CRBG ensure fast Q’s for all players, that’s what they say right? Behold they use CRBG in BFA, and it’s not working.

CRBG’s are super awesome for RBG players below 2200 also, gotta love it.

CRBG’s cant fix low level PVP Q’s because they don’t solve anything long term.

Oh wait, CRBG does not fix faction balance issues? OH DEAR!


True, it doesn’t. That’s why they eventually added merc mode (though they still hide it at NPCs instead of just building it into the UI to give it the best impact).

While xrealm BGs don’t 100% balance queue times, they give you a larger pool of players to draw from and substantially reduced queue times on average compared to 1 server BG queue times for many servers.

Also, when they had battlegroups, they intentionally tried to match servers in a battlegroup that had different faction balances IE: put really heavy horde servers in the same group as really heavy alliance servers.

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I think the most reasonable would be
Phase 1: server pvp
phase 2: battlegroups

why? because lets say you are on a horde dominated server and alliance dont like to do battlegrounds and they are too few. what you do then?

The reason why battlegroups were added was to keep a healthy, stable and more active battlegrounds.

And we said no changes so why remove battlegroups? slippery slope

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Not really. Maybe my battlegroup was unusual, but I remember seeing many of the same people over and over and over again. I bet I can count on one hand the times I’ve run across someone who has been in more than one LFD/LFR group with me…

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I too think CRBG’s are a better option. The only reason i see people who are against it say is they like seeing the same people in the BG’s, but i remember running into the same people in TBC and WoTLK, so idk about that…

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All servers tend toward faction polarization over time. As soon as a server begins to tilt toward either Alliance or Horde domination, it will accelerate into that tilt. A 55/45 split will become a 60/40, a 70/30, etc. The end result, one side is starved for talent, the other side has unbelievably long BG queues. This happens especially badly on a pvp server since gankers create an unnaturally high barrier for entry once the first crop of characters reach 60.

CRBG is a band aid for this problem.

I’m not saying I have a better solution, but it’s what CRBG was for. CRZ’s and CR dungeons which followed in later expansions were solutions to a similar problem, where a larger and larger level range on servers that were either static in size, or shrinking in population meant that outside of the max level zones, the game became a virtual ghost town.

If it was me, I’d either institute CRBGs if they become needed (due to server imbalance) or plan on introducing them in phase 6.

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Which also hasn’t solved the issue.



Xrealm BGs are a TBC feature that was designed for TBC era BG/Arena brackets splitting the pvp base into more parts than a single server could handle (3 arena brackets and 4 bgs for TBC, vs Vanilla only dividing the pvp player base into 3 bgs)… It was only implemented into vanilla because it needed to be functional prior to TBC release, and it could still be turned on/off during vanilla without consequence if the system broke down. CR-BGs in vanilla, imo only existed as a beta test for the tech.

It has no place in the closed realm community system vanilla represents.


Exactly. People keep throwing out CRBGs and such under the guise of but it was in 1.12! when they don’t understand the context in which those were implemented.


I didn’t claim that it did so I’m not sure what your point was meant to be. I followed the part you quoted with “(though they still hide it at NPCs instead of just building it into the UI to give it the best impact).”

If merc mode were more easily accessible and visible the queue times wouldn’t be as far off. Some people don’t even know that it exists. It isn’t advertised anywhere in-game.

There are also a lot of issues in retail PvP that have nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread such as class design, class balance, racial balance and PvP gearing being better in PvE than PvP.

Since item level matters a lot in BfA PvP (even with ilvl scaling in PvP) and Horde seem to be the favored faction in PvE as well, that likely contributes to faction balance issues in PvP.

Of course, none of that is relevant to the topic or point that CRBGs do in fact lead to lower average queue times than single server queues. They don’t result in world peace and the solving of all problems, but they do in fact have a substantially positive impact on average queue times.

If they didn’t exist in vanilla it wouldn’t even be a realistic discussion in terms of whether or not we’ll see them at some point in Classic, but they did, so we might. It very well may depend on average BG queue times in Classic. If they’re really bad and people are complaining, maybe we’ll see battlegroups and CRBGs sooner.

You only need CRBG if you have large faction imbalances or a lot of people have stopped doing Battlegrounds for some reason (all the stuff you mentioned which is the same old crap just shuffled some).

If you have somewhat even factions and lots of people queueing up there is no reason to have CRBG because it solves no problems.


Sure, which is why I also said “It very well may depend on average BG queue times in Classic. If they’re really bad and people are complaining, maybe we’ll see battlegroups and CRBGs sooner.”

After BGs come out in classic, if there are a lot of servers with faction balance issues, perhaps they’ll be more inclined to use CRBGs. Maybe they’ll even only use them for servers with significant faction balance issues and leave closely balanced ones alone. Who knows?

I would rather the bg take forever to pop and make pvpvers look to wolrd pvp while waiting to get their fix than have crbgs


This is mostly because BFA is trash and many people have stopped playing (people hate winter grasp & seething shore, some alliance are boycotting bgs etc). They also segregated low level queues recently (removed exp off from exp on queues) which only increased everyone’s queue times.

Segregating the queues is akin to having no crbg ie. smaller pool of players and you get longer queues.

I am the worst on this topic. I remember single server days, I still remember the names of the dominant PvP’ers I fought in BG’s. I’ll 100 years old and never forget them.

And I remember being very happy when x-realm came along because it shortened Q times by A LOT.

So… yeah. I loved recognizing people I fought, but I also loved to get into BG’s any time I wanted not just during prime time hours. The fact that there are people around who claim that x-realm did not affect Q times… they are either lying about what they remember or lying about playing early Vanilla.