It’s kind of as simple as I only see ur high ranks are in WSG in premades and your pugs just rush around in a ball trying the same strats from before the fixes. I only see high ranks on ally side now when they manage to get a semi premade going (only games i have lost).
-You have to realize we are in queue for an hour so we want to PVP not PVE
-Most of the time LTs are left up for a very long time.
-Most of our coordination is in /bg
-We use pots because the most we get is a low tick HOT at best.
-we spend like 10 minutes just killing town NPCs at Van
you gotta ask yourself why 1 mage on horde side will jump in a Nova literally 25 of you at once, catch no bubble, and die just to beat ur zerg in mid field and catch 0 honor for it.
I’m not gona say git gud because it’s dumb…usually i’m super jealous watching pallies spam heals on u guys in the back while I stare at our 3 shadow priests behind me.
we have been an entire PUG since the beginning and i think there is some conditioning that happened and ally players expect to win mounted in a 30 man zerg to pally pull at Drek…i’m usually thoroughly confused when killing someone as to why they don’t dismount and fight alot
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yep I figured you wanted him to say it. I would love for horde to acknowledge the real issue as well.
This is probably because pvp wasnt cross server and people at the time didnt have as much know how and strat as they do now 15 years later.
The entire “mentality” argument falls on its face when you consider the fact that decent 30+ premades can be beaten by horde pugs. I’ve been in a lot of avg rank 9+ games where alliance ending up losing. No one is afking in those. No one isn’t listening to strategy in those.
Shorter distances to grave yards & chokes = massive advantage. No one can logically dispute this. And how many weeks has this been going on for now? Fewer and fewer alliance even que for it as a result. Soon horde won’t even been to get in an AV.
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As someone pointed out in another post, the reason alliance are losing is because horde is playing a different av strat than we are. Alliance wants fast matches and a zerg of LT’s because we get fast q’s. The horde wants to milk the BG and kill as many people for as much honor as possible because they know its 2 hours before they get another que. Most premades or pugs give up and want the horde to win if they cant win or the game doesnt end in 10 mins. THIS is why the alliance is losing so much. You see it every single game, the alliance mounts up and tries to RUN past the horde zerg. The horde dismount and literally kill half the alliance players, then the other half get wiped trying to take IBGY. This is repeated literally in every game.
Benefits for both sides on this. Alliance lose less, so they will queue more and reduce horde queue times.
Makes everyone happy except the #nochanges crew. I used to be #nochanges but some of these changes will not kill the game, and keeping it #nochanges could actually kill an entire bg if not addressed.
If you pay close attention, a lot of the premade people have been forced to intersperse and deal with pug games. We’ve actually been trying a myriad of different strategies, and which I believe is what’s causing the outrage right now, because it’s actually not working. Outside of a perfect 40 man premade, you’re still able to run your map razing strategy without fail. You’re right, most alliance want the 7 min. wins we had weeks ago, but reality is here, and we’re trying to change. But I’ll be honest, with the synergism horde seems to have given themselves in the last week alone, it’s going to take alliance a very long time to catch up. Unfortunately it might be too late for anyone to care.
Oh ffs, in every single premade that actually cleared objectives instead of rushing, you win. if your premade is attempting a 7min Pally pull and is not practiced at it and we actually recall, we can wipe you.
If you guys premade and use sounds strategies, you will win every time, more often then not with us just getting some lt’s and perhaps commanders down. these premades that strategically take objectives and defend their territory tear up horde pugs.
I have been honest, I think we have a map advantage too but I do not think it is insurmountable. FFS you guys keep complaining about the distance to support IBGY cap but you have completely stopped capping snowfall. Whose fault is that? Why not have the team that is capping ibgy cap snowfall first? This way while they are working on ibgy the timer is ticking away and it should flip by the time your defense is ready to push forward to cap ibgy. This way your capping team, who may die defending the flag cap will have a shorter ride to get back into the fight. This of course is assuming your defense has broken off as soon as the cap is announced and combat has been dropped. Without proper support, you will never cap things.
I suppose instead, keep complaining that everything is not fair. It is hard to sympathize when you keep shooting yourselves in the foot. Your own arguments usually have a solution, you just want it handed to you instead of working for it, apparently.
I actually enjoy people coming up with new strats other than “Hide and seek at SH” or “Run Right to IBGY”. I have seen an entire horde offensive recall so they can recapture IBGY. That would be like alliance players recalling from FWGY to take back SH. Horde knows that if they can make a game longer than 15 mins people will flat out quit.
The IBGY team runs past snowfall because any horde you kill near or around snowfall, is another horde you will fight after you win the snowfall battle, and attempt to move to IBGY. The downside to this is that the horde literally try to dismount and kill as many alliance players as possible, and they usually get 40-50% of the IBGY force.
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Best suggestion I heard was randomize which side of the map you get. It would be kind of lore wonky but seems like a pretty fair solution.
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I would love to see the patch notes and associated threads as to the reasoning given for the move. Was it just to appease a certain segment of the player base or was there legit reason, ie distances (we know, horde is closer to ibgy then…)
You would think they have their reasons for implementing things the way they are, as been stated it was brought up many times prior to AV release and yet here we are. You have to ask yourself, why???
So instead of making the best of the situation, I mean you have boasted to constantly winning mid battles but apparently can not hold a gy. WHY??? Did you cap snowfall too when trying to take ibgy? Do you think this would put your rezz support of the cap of ibgy closer to the distance that horde has of ibgy to shgy? If so, why arent you capping it? It is not like we want to cap it…
I mean I get the layout is favorable to us, which is why I have been preaching to you all to keep shgy at all costs. If you have read this thread you will realize that still has not sunk in. Figuring out the how to should be fun, trial and error and even when you do find that right strategy, you can rest assured it will be countered which will require you to begin the process anew, how do you counter the counter?
It should not be difficult to properly hold any graveyard, especially with the proper force. Sure, some are better defended then others, we have a grand total of 1 that is adequately defended, the other two are completely out in the open. As it turns out, the same can be said for alliance, your AS is your best defended GY while ours is IBGY, based on npc placement. Why not incorporate this into your strategies? It means it will take a superior and proper force to cap IBGY, maybe you need to trade a SHGY cap for it and then defend IBGY properly while sending back a defensive team to retake your GY and then bunkers…
I just dont get why you guys cant come up with functioning strategies. They have been done many times in the past, I am not coming up with anything original here. Sometimes, the rng is going to slap you down and sometimes you will be doing the slapping. At least you get to play again in another 5 min…ffs!
Aye, seems like the most fair solution. Would be nice if they could somehow alter the architecture on the swapped games somehow though.
This is why your ibgy force should begin predominantly in your territory taking advantage of your npcs. Your premades do it, I have posted here on this thread multiple times your should be doing it with perhaps just stealthers timing the cap of ibgy and your defense ready to mount up and push forward in support of the cap.
Alliance rog 1 ‘Pulling IBGY guards now’. Defense looks to exit combat. ALliance Druid 1 ‘Capping IBGY’, defense in the process of mounting and riding to support IBGY. We do not have this sort of communication but you can bet when we see caps, many of us will ride to support it. We also have those who complain, ‘the meta is not capping shgy, what are you doing stupid?’ and then there are also those guys who cap and ride off.
Dont be those guys, be the one who defends caps, support positive caps even if it creates a horde turtle. I mean if you have pushed us back to our cave, there is a good chance you have a superior force and are going to win with a sound strategy.
The q would be shorter if y’all would just go win and not camp alliance causing us to afk out making your q that much longer.
I dont blame them for camping alliance. They get 1 match per 1-2 hours. Would you want it to be over in 20 mins and leave honor on the table?
You realize that’s what causes their q times to be longer right? The faster they win the shorter their q becomes. The faster they win the more alliance cycles through AV’s which reduces horde q time. The more they camp us the more we afk out making every ally who afk’s out not be able to q up for 15 minutes. The q time for horde is their own fault. It will never be instant but it could be a lot better than an hour if they’d just ignore alliance and win.
they have longer Que times because more horde pvp than alliance. Period. Most pvp servers skew heavily towards horde. There are exceptions.
Statements like this make you very easy to be ignored.