I’ll just add - particularly when they can concentrate their forces on one front, a front that plays to the military capabilities of two of the three, while the Western Horde has to deal with guarding its other territories, including overseas possessions.
That was Anduin’s in-the-moment reaction, not a hard fact. Anduin was in no position to know if he was correct.
Seriously, could you link this? This is new information for me, and I think it would actually get closer to satisfying my request.
I am pretty sure nathanos has a good idea of what his forces are doing
I don’t think that sort of thing is possible anymore, is it? The only reason why the last one worked was because of some kind of forum ID information that could be accessed, which is why blocks used to be account wide instead of limited to posting character.
Sure kill gallywix - that’s fine by me too.
Threatening? Sure. Nobody should be a pushover. But that doesn’t make them rivals or on any level of equivalence.
No race should live out the power fantasy of being able to destroy the entire other faction (that’s ignoring the giant logical flaw in trying to make that true for every race).
Having Night Elves able to beat the entire Horde is simply unsustainable.
Night Elves are not a faction. That power fantasy has to go out the window for their fan base.
ngl the amount of crying on the forums about nelves has done the polar opposite effect and now i kind of want them to get nothing because i don’t know what they will do in their spare time without taking over every thread or making dozens of threads on the same subject or talking about the same thing a hundred times in circular arguments
Ashenvale has been contested territory since the original Horde landing. There was no Horde effort to consolidate any gains made there during War of Thorns so it’s pretty much the same way now.
Nobody cares what you think regarding this topic. Go back to your bridge toll.
oh wise arbiter
nobody cares about you think either
Again, this is bad faith framing. No one is seriously making this argument, and you know it.
You’re transmogrifying the idea that in a rivalry, the component parts of each rival power should be threatening to the other into a statement of Night Elf world domination - which the people you’re arguing with have repeatedly disclaimed.
No it wasn’t after mop the horde ceased to even be there
Yes my son?
Not all… many, but not even close to all.
Does Ethriel enjoy being victimized? Is it a masochistic thing?
I don’t disagree per se - I just don’t care either way is all.
I literally never said anything even remotely like this. Holy cow are you all just trying to make me think I’m taking crazy pills?
The logical extension of this should then be that Orcs alone should be able to match the Alliance faction. Trolls alone should be able to match the Alliance faction, etc.
I don’t think that’s sustainable. We have a good amount of lore suggesting that the Horde expected to pay dearly for this attack - and they did - while also suggesting that in 100% optimal conditions for the Night Elves, the Horde’s attack wouldn’t have succeeded. In this case, said optimal conditions being a full military defense with both leaders at the ready.
As Micah brought up, this is a little hard to follow in-game, but even in the actual War of Thorns playthrough from the Horde side, the advance is stopped twice by the defenders, the second defensive line requiring a pretty flimsy deus ex machina to bypass.
The portrayal of the Night Elves as a strong match for the Horde already exists. The problem I and many other posters have is that you dislike the way in which this was communicated and so want what we perceive to be extra portrayals of your power on top of that. That is where we stick. I know you in particular have worked on ways to address that issue but I thought I would bring it up again for clarity’s sake.
They did. But posing a “significant and dangerous threat” isn’t a guarantee of victory. You can be a “significant threat” which requires a great deal of planning to address, but still not win.
No lol. Do you seriously think that she magically pulled all Horde troops in the entirety of Azeroth back to Orgrimmar?
Even if she temporarily pulled back the troops in Ashenvale, we don’t know if Anduin gave the Horde Ashenvale or if the Night Elves gave up on it, the Horde could’ve just returned to it.
You have zero proof that the Night Elves reclaimed it, therefore it being a Horde zone is still canon.
It makes sense though, and sometimes we have to take character statements as word of god. Also, the Night Elves had their only 3 populated zones entirely wiped out.
A vast majority of the Kaldorei in the path of the War of Thorns certainly were exterminated, but not all of them. That does a disservice to how good the Kaldorei are are stealth and ambush warfare in general. And that also does not touch the populations in other parts of the world such as Hyjal, Winterspring, or off in the Broken Isles.
In what universe does Anduin give the Horde land they conquered in a quasi-genocidal warpath. That just… no.
That’s an incorrect reading of my statement.
Realistically, I need to get a refined scenario into a word doc or something. It’s a bit exhausting having to reclarify the same point for people who have heard it before, and are now trying to re-have the same arguments that we had months ago and that I thought were resolved.
If you read all of them 1 by 1 at the same time, than the change might not be all that visible. But while the problems are still the same (and not exclusive just to 1 part of the narrative), the way of talking somewhat went away from bashing each other, and has occasional discussions about the problems across different story lines (with the elf one being one of, if not most easy to spot the problems, visible in other areas too) and more focus on the dev being a source of the situation, and not the players.
Things that plague the narrative, plague it indiscriminately.
It is so much of a “though-line”, that it barely mentioned throughout the story.
Like, I am unlocking the allied races, and at the 1st stage (8.0) both side are “eh, whatever”.
Don’t have the personal experience with the further parts, just saw on youtube, so can’t comment much. On a surface it does not seem like it becomes a big subject of reflection, comparisons, or anything of the kind.
With that I suppose we’ll have to wait for what awaits us in the future from that dev team.
While it’s not “completely”
Seems like a yet another example of “solving a problem that the players do not have”.
It’s not about the horde playerbase IMO, as much as the devs are causing problems, and then hop away to next big thing when convenient.
It sure is
BfA was confirmed to be a way for the devs to change the horde into something new that the devs think is better (I doubt they bothered asking the players if they felt like there is need to undermine and throw away what the horde was).
She is literally a banshee possessing her dead body. Of course you can get it from her corpse, even if she just flies away from the body.
Depends. IMO the main question would be for the devs to decide and be explicit if they commit to the factions being the “core of the game” as they claim, or stop pretending and follow the narrative with the gameplay.
Based upon that, there is plethora of ways from blunt to “morally grey”, from using just night elves, to use it as a way to explore their relationship with other races of the alliance.
If the factions would be considered as a “core and is a good thing to keep” with a narrative that is consistently reiforcing the idea of “it’s a core and is a good thing to keep”, it would be enough for a part of the alliance to go in “you go solve your problems yourself from now on” approach.
So that way wins of horde are just the horde achievements. And losses of the horde would be in the same boat.
But it’s just me with “the horde should be the heroes of the horde, and the alliance should care about the alliance” approach with “for Azeroth” being a non-entity anymore.
A lot of people do cry regardless.
There are ways to go about it from facepalming to rather nuanced.
But at this point I think all these discussion are more of “if we actually get reasonalble writing team next, what would be nice to consider”, rather than anything the current one might do, be it because that what they want or all what they are capable of.
I mean, we could theorise on about how exactly these “renewed” night elves might use the Pleasure Palace. Will that become a new culturally important aspect of their identity, I wonder 
There is an old Metzen concept about “dispensing indiscriminate justice” when it comes to the alliance.
That would’ve been way more fitting for the story if the factions would be needed and would get the depth it would require.
The devs needed a yet another narrative tool to push the story wherever all things be damned?
Ironic for the “best of the horde”. But you know it way better than I do.
Ah, “tell, don’t show” is such a good idea in a visual media.
It was mentioned in wow-encyclopedia and in the WotA trilogy, although only briefly mentioned by Illidan iirc.
does it work the other way too?
IMO one of the weirdest things, is that Jaina is all pro-peace now and yet somehow getting through that is not considered a top priority by her for the sake of strengthening the peace.
I mean, dev do talk about morality and lessons learned, but “if you’re one of chosen by the devs, you can get away with whatever” is kind of… interesting take from people talking about morality (devs).
gl hf
I literally quoted and replied to the person who said that before you jumped in and tried to reframe my comments into making arguments I didn’t say! Holy cow.