I concur. Tis very purple.
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Sounds like projection to me for not wanting the Horde to face any consequences.
Nope. I want the Horde to atone for what they did on their own and not face any violence or harm done to them. Some Horde posters might find that worse than getting punched last. Either way, protests against either come from not wanting the Horde to have to answer for anything at all.
Hey, thatâs convenient. This describes me as well.
Even more convenient, though, that this will happen by sweeping everything bad under the rug and pretending it didnât happen.
So youâre admitting youâre ignoring the section of the Horde that did bad stuff?
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To be fair, no oneâs really sure why you choose to post on a Night Elf character.
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Psst. Treng. I called Drahliana a Night Elf fan. The person who said they werenât a Night Elf fan was Drahliana.
I see you there, too, Rothiron, agreeing with Treng for the sake of spiting me instead of actually thinking through what you were hitting like for.
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To be honest, I have no idea how the hordeâs supposed to be able to atone for BFA.
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I have great, wonderful news! We are actually not opposed on this particular bit. So we can stow the suspicions that one is projecting on the other and proceed to argue like honest gentlebeings.
Sure sounded like Saurfang was pretending nothing bad ever happened with the Horde.
And now youâre putting words in my mouth. I guess we canât discuss like gentlebeings then.
My argument is not that the Horde is squeaky clean. My argument is that NO ONE in the Horde was in support of Sylvanasâ schemes. I was focused on debunking the notion that the only reason that Sylvanas was dissented against was her hurting the Hordeâs feelings. Dissent started as soon as Teldrassil happened.
Your supporting evidence and argument that there are Horde members that were comfortable with doesnât actually affect mine unless youâre trying to generalize. And even then, it doesnât actually disprove my examples.
Iâll cut you a deal. Think through your arguments against me and ponder whether your accusations hold water. And Iâll just keep doing what Iâm doing for my own reasons you have yet to comprehend. Like an elder being beyond the veil, with an eldritch penchant for liking even slightly applicable forum fallacies⊠and adorable cat vids.
-drops brain-shaped marshmellows in cup of hot chocolate and sips-
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How about the usual fare? Saving Azeroth⊠letâs say two or three more times. World saving always does miracles for the morality tab. But slice that in half if Tyrande follows through on the foreshadowing and goes rogue in a Horde hunting crusade.
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Mainly because itâs my main⊠and as Iâm constantly being reminded, this is not the RP forum. Weâre supposed to be in discussion as players, not characters, so what we post under is pretty much irrelevant.
Iâm not particurlarly fond any approach that is meant to attack the person instead of the point theyâre making.
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Thatâs great news indeed!
You do realize you were the first one between us to start comments about projection, right?
I mean no disrespect in saying this, but that sounds like headcanon. Saurfang is not a generalization of the Horde. And general dissent among the Horde did not start until atter the Nazjatar trap. Lorâthemar even describes exactly that he didnât dissent earlier and why:
- A part of me will always wonder if this would have happened had I acted sooner. If I had confronted Sylvanas in the early days of the war. If Teldrassil hadn't burned.
It is not an easy thing to watch a dear friend tread a dark path, to recognize when they have gone astray. I thought I knew her, and Saurfang has paid the price for my error in judgment.
I like deals. 
Getting out of Night Elf lands would be a good start.
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Humm unrealated but RenatâŠ
have been you playing minecraft recently?
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How about have them actually recognize what they did at Teldrassil and explain why they defended Sylvanas after it.
For a start at least.
ORâŠ
We can stop pretending the Horde are âgood guysâ too.
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I guess the same way the United States has atoned for near extinction of the North American aboriginal population, the almost total extinction of the Hawaiian aboriginines and so onâŠ
Nations donât âatoneâ unless they come out as clear losers in a decisive conflict.
The war started by the War of Thorns did not end that way so in a real practical sense⊠no one is going to be forcing atonements out of anyone. The Alliance, Kul-Tiras, and Zandalar, has lost their naval muscle and the Horde has pretty much expended all of itâs offensive kitchen sinks.
So we proceed to the usual phase of an expansionâs endâŠthe Reluctant Team-Up Phase.
And we have at least two loose canons that will guarantee that any thought of a true end to the faction conflict is as non-existent as Anduinâs chin.
That is funny when youâve switch to your Horde alt from time to time to post in a more role playing style.
Edit: Arlessa. That was the name of your alt. I had forgotten it. Thanks for posting on that character again.
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There is a point to be made here I suppose. With how its portrayed, neither faction is left with sufficient enough power to assert authority over the other in any real capacity. This cease-fire is just as much from both sides just exhausting themselves, as having neither the will or means to throw more into this conflict.
Its a whole lot of saving face on every side right now.
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Maybe if the writers would just CHOOSE a direction for the Horde and stick with it. The Horde, in vanilla, was not marketed as being the evil faction, hell most of us that play Horde mains might not BE Horde if it was marketed that way.
It is not really pretending when we are written in a ping-pong manner and we get the Horde being just a group trying to survive in a world that is against them as well as the âwe are bad guys, we love being badâ in the same faction. Really, among the races that make up the Horde, only real problem members are the Orcs and Forsaken, the rest might have their outliers but for the most part would be neutral in the good/evil spectrum at worst.
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I used the word projection first.
YOU accused me of projection first.
And yet a part of your quote from Lorâthemar reinforces my overall argument.
A part of me will always wonder if this would have happened had I acted sooner. If I had confronted Sylvanas in the early days of the war. If Teldrassil hadnât burned.
Does it sound like Lorâthemar was fine with Sylvanasâ decision to commit genocide? Course not. He only sticks with Sylvanas due to their shared past connection, a remarkably human and understanding reason honestly.
I guarantee you, no one who joined Saurfangâs rebellion early on or even midway through was comfortable with Teldrassil. Frankly, Iâd be surprised if most people who sided with Sylvanas up until her true colors shown were all that comfortable, especially given how easily they dumped her. And they turned on Sylvanas well before she âhurt their feelingsâ by saying the Horde was nothing.
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They failed to take it from the goblins. The Night Elves hadnât had any presence in Azshara since Illidan destroyed those villages in Warcraft 3. In a world with no global agreement on borders, it really wasnât theirs to give anymore. They can believe that they have a rightful claim, sure, but ultimately they werenât using it, and only decided to start caring about it when the Goblins showed up.
Tyrande allowed them land that she was never going to get back, so that she would reap benefits in lands that Night Elves actually lived in and cared about.
Unfortunately, the zones needed rebalancing in Cata. Iâm not a fan of the way it was done in every scenario, but Azshara was going Horde and staying that way regardless of what happened.
Yeah, and Liadrin is either an idiot or intentionally misleading because she doesnât like Night Elves. But sheâs allowed to be those things. Her blatant lies reflect poorly on her, not the Night Elves.
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I donât need your head canon.
How about Blizzard bothers to write it instead?
Oh andâŠ
Loool!
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I mean, Iâm not opposed to Blizzard making it more explicit and putting more lore in the game, but even as is its pretty apparent, especially considering the characterization of the various figures involved coupled with what opinions they voice.
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