You know its strange … out of all of the things wrong with BfA, Sylvie’s characterization is one of the things I’ve felt has been most consistent.
Without knowing her true goals, its extremely hard to judge the actions she takes to achieve them … but tbh, nothing she has really done this expansion has really surprised me. She is still very much the same character from “Edge of Night” and the very same one from Cata (who DID attempt to blight an entire city with its civilians inside; and ONLY failed because she wasn’t aware of the evacuation being used). The major thing working against this would have been the beginning of Legion (but she heel-turned back to her old self REAL quick with Stormheim).
Hell, thats the reason I managed to avoid a rage-quit moment in BfA so far (because I had my rage-quit moment in Legion for several months after I made the mistake of doing Stormheim questing first and realized she was still very much on her character arc given to her in Edge of Night; and the Horde was in for a VERY rough ride under her leadership).
Leave me out of that. My character still wants Saurfang’s head on a pike, alongside that of Sylvannas’. She might be persuaded to hold off on the first by an order from Anduin, but never the second.
As a horde player, I want nothing more than to give the Night Elves Sylvanas Windrunner (to with as they please). They don’t just deserve her head on a pike, they deserve an opportunity to take BOTH of her remaining lives (her one extra due to her Val’kyr and her remaining mortal life). Allow them to return her to her greatest nightmare, no one else (horde or alliance) should say otherwise.
That being said, as clunky as his narrative has been … I do think the Horde still needs Saurfang. I would also (for the first time ever) like to have an old orc that realizes a quick death is not sufficient to make up for mistakes in life; nor does it work to serve his people in the long run (its a form of “Hiding”, a quick death). A life of Service to his People and attempted atonement for his mistakes is a better route for the Old Soldier.
Whatever goals she has seemingly involves committing genocides and raising large numbers of people, horde and alliance, from the dead… so I am gonna go ahead and say I can make a judgement that her goals probably aren’t very good.
I agree. I like Saurfangs story that’s displayed in both the novella and cinematics because it’s one of the only things that makes the Horde worth continuing to play if you aren’t one of the people who loves being the Baddies. I am however afraid they are probably gonna give him his “honorable death” by the end of this.
This is the same company that had catapults from Darkshore burn down Teldrassil. Adhering to things that would work or not isn’t Blizzard’s strong suit.
But yes, a repeat of A Little Patience would be a huge blunder on Blizzard’s part unless their intention is to piss off fans. But we’re still in risk of that, as people are worried that Tyrande is going to do something to flame the fires of war again just as Anduin is going to achieve peace, and Anduin can say Tyrande just should have had a little patience again.
The relevence is such: Why we don’t actually see the Alliance go after Sylvanas again right away? And instead we spend our time talking with Baine, watching him get arrested, getting Xal’atath, and then falling into the Nazjatar trap? Because those are the locations and story Blizzard wanted write, and characters are bent around that to prolong things so Blizzard can do that.
The narrative supports that rather consistently, as it has portrayed Saurfang as suicidal and escapist, and people generally regarded “Warbringers: Sylvanas” as Sylvanas simply screaming “BURN IT!” because she was pitied when that reveal came out. And looking at A Good War makes it even more evident why Sylvanas was so easy to push over the edge by Delaryn.
Once again, I stand by my analysis.
It doesn’t have to state it, when, as analyzed, Sylvanas doesn’t even remember what her plan to split the Alliance was any more, which when added to her emotional state covers that her faulty thinking.
If anything, it’s even better, because it’s an objective fact by the writer that she was emotional.
As covered above, both are shown to be emotionally compromised.
Cast by Tyrande as the Night Warrior aspect of Elune. Which was my point, that the Worgen actually end up closer to the Night Elves because of Elune embracing vengeance, not the merciful light that was trying to save Malfurion.
That’s another example of the burning to Teldrassil uniting the Alliance even more, as, for example, Ivar Bloodfang and his pack shows up at Darkshore, where as previously the Bloodfang pack was purely concerned with Gilneas and the surrounding regions. So, once again, the opposite of what Sylvanas expected.
Which, once again, was Spuddyc’s point with this thread, that Sylvanas lied to Saurfang and the Horde and sold them an honorable war she probably was never going to deliver.
That was the theatrics that cost her everything, yes.
They said the Alliance would show signs of division in an interview that came before Tides of Vengeance. I find it likely that Tyrande storming off to Darkshore by herself and Genn supporting Tyrande will be all it amounts to.
I consider this likely because of the softening of Genn’s broadcast text over the development of Tides of Vegence, from:
Anduin Wrynn says: You said nothing, Genn. What more could I have done?
Genn Greymane says: The night elves saved my people from our curse--gave us refuge in Darnassus.
Genn Greymane says: Countless gilneans died when it fell, boy. I nearly lost Mia.
Genn Greymane says: I won't let them endure the same fate we have--the worgen will fight by their side.
Genn Greymane says: Anduin... I need a word.
Anduin Wrynn says: Of course. You know you can always speak your mind.
Genn Greymane says: The night elves saved my people from our curse. They offered us refuge in Darnassus after our kingdom fell.
Genn Greymane says: I cannot stand idle as they endure the same fate we did. Gilneas will fight by their side.
Genn Greymane says: I don't mean to defy you. But if I didn't give the order, I think Mia would charge off to battle without me.
Anduin Wrynn says: I understand, Genn. Light be with you.
As long as you don’t delve back into your “we must assume status quo” headcanon world.
And my point was that “as real” is a misleading statement, as the Horde split is meaningfully worse.
If you’re right you’ll be right, and we’ll have a worse A Little Patience rehash, and many fans will be quite upset.
If you’re wrong, at the very least, I will be quite happy.
Tyrande not showing up for Azshara is definitely the main focus of the thread, but here’s some samples:
Yes, villain batting is the concern, on the idea that Tyrande would continue the war.
Same to you.
Sure, but from what I can tell, you’re like our token contrarian Night Elf fan. I think the only way to get you to like Saurfang would be for the narrative to tell you not to like him.
As me the real person, I can find Saurfang likeable. Some of my Horde characters would worship the ground he walks on.
Drahliana sealed her opinion of him after the massacres of Ashenvale. She’s not particularly impressed that a Human who’s barely a child by Kal’dorei standards finds him “honorable” and she’s never been big on the whole “Honor” schtick.
I’m not a fan. I tend to think of myself as having a broader view of Night Elves as whole instead of grounding it mainly on it’s half-dozen most famous… or infamous. What I always did like about them was Blizzard’s inversion of the usual Dark skinned Elf trope.
I don’t think honor or Anduin would be the right angle, no. Here’s what I proposed:
Which is more in line with what Droité proposed up above.
Well, you obviously have made the choice to post on your Night Elf character over any of your others, so by forum interpretation, that makes you one of us, apparently.
Maybe she just wants to become guldan and lead the horde from the shadows with a puppet warchief, so she gets varok to “overthrow” her and put baine in charge. That way the horde and alliance make peace before the alliance races get their revenge and they turn on themselves.
But my point was that attacking the Zandalari doesn’t make sense with Anduin’s supposed motivations in-universe and the decisions made after the raid are self-defeating. The fact that it’s writer fiat isn’t really relevant to that. I get that you’re saying “Well that’s just how they wrote it”, but in terms of character relations, cause and effect, and the story going forward according to what we know, that doesn’t matter very much.
Most Orcs are portrayed as wanting a glorious death though, Saurfang’s cultural beliefs and his despair at the situation doesn’t show his internal logic and thinking on events to be wrong. And in terms of Sylvanas, the Warbringers doesn’t show her thinking at all, while Good War does, and the story even notes that her anger evaporates after the order. While Warbringers leads the viewer to believe she acted out of spite, the novella shows that she’s thinking, reasoning, and looking for a solution in advance, and it doesn’t show her mind to be “clouded by rage” or anything like that, not in any way that undermines her cognitive functions.
As I note before, the story is quite blunt with statements of foreshadowing when things are supposed to be hidden, I don’t think it’s reasonable to suggest that those passages were subtly lying to the reader without signposting it.
Also, when you say that she just forgot the plan, you’re assuming what her plan was to begin with. As I’ve said, many things within the story show that Saurfang’s suggestion was not what she was aiming for.
It only says she was angry. It says nothing about that anger making her thinking faulty. And by that logic, most of that section is presented in an objective manner, most of it isn’t even presented in the form of dialog, but rote exposition.
You say it’s covered, nothing I’ve seen you present actually shows that to be true.
So what, everything cast by Tyrande carries some deep meaning and connection to Elune just because she’s the Night Warrior? It’s just a buff that’s only present for a short part of one quest, it has no relevance or lasting impact on the Worgen and doesn’t carry forward into the warfront or the updated zone.
The Worgen and the Night Elves becoming more united doesn’t mean the Alliance is more united.
His point was that she admitted the Alliance could only be split by fighting honorably and then went back on that thus undermining the entire idea, my point was that she was simply lying about that being the only way to split the Alliance.
Look at her dialog at the start with Saurfang, she tells him that the Horde doesn’t trust her to wage war honorably. If the point was to influence the Alliance, what the Horde thinks wouldn’t matter. Seems to me that getting Saurfang on board to plan and lead the invasion was primarily about intra-Horde cohesion and PR.
Basically, she wanted to fight the war according to her old MO. She wanted to allow most of the Horde to fight according to their own ideals so they would stay united, while she worked things behind the scenes to achieve her greater strategic goals, like how she’s behind the overall direction of the war and how she tried to take out key targets instead of leading outright.
Saurfang randomly sparing Malfurion effectively shot all of that down, so now she’s taken direct command.
It was a fine enough idea, and it probably would have gone off without a hitch if there hadn’t been literal divine intervention.
If anything, I think the change in dialog is meant to make it more of a slow boil. If they wanted ToV to be the divided moment, they would have stuck with the original version, as it is nothing has come to fruition yet.
Funnily enough, assuming otherwise is the actual headcanon.
It’s certainly more intense now, but Horde division has also been building practically since the start of the game. For the Alliance, most of their schismatic factors have only been recently introduced. Probably as a result of being told for years that the faction is “boring”.
Why do you assume it would be a rehash of ALP? I think it’s more likely to be an avenue of continued faction conflict going forward.
But similar to what I noted, all of those posts are about Tyrande becoming a villain. There’s no reason her diverging from Anduin and pursuing the war has to be contingent on her becoming a loot piñata. People have said for years that they want the Night Elves to get their fangs back, that they should stop being these bog standard Elf hippies that dress in Stormwind armor and constantly get rolled over by the story knocking them down and them never getting back up to fight. The whole Night Warrior thing seems like a direct response to that, what sense does it make to immediately backtrack it and have Tyrande kowtow to Anduin’s peacemongering?
I don’t think the devs can ever give up the faction conflict in this game, so they’re either going to need to retread the aggressive Horde angle a third time, or they need to establish Alliance characters that don’t just want peace.
The motivation the Alliance was given for attacking the Zandalari was to make sure that their navy couldn’t be used by the Horde against the Alliance. Why Anduin thought he was sending the Alliance to make sure the Zandalari were remaining neutral is anyone’s guess, but Anduin never expressed that to anyone until after the fact. As far as High Commander Halford Wyrmbane was concerned, who was the person running the Zandalari opperation based on the same as the Alliance player was told was the point of the attack, the Battle of Dazar’alor was a resounding success. With the Zandalari no longer a threat, the Alliance was free to focus on Sylvanas again, which was always their main goal, as was stated in the final quest in the 8.0 Alliance War Campaign:
Anduin Wrynn says: The Alliance must ask even more of you, <name>. It is clear that we cannot hope to end the warchief's reign until we sever her ties to the Zandalari. That day will come... soon.
It does matter, in that it distorts character motivation, when their repeated motivation is going after Sylvanas, and they don’t do that.
It most certainly does when Saurfang feels shame for enjoying the war and regretting having agreed to it at all:
As for Sylvanas, A Good War said her anger turned cold, not that it evaporated.
The novella shows her trying to think, and trying to look for a solution, but it starts and ends with her just having been spinning her wheels and not reasoning at all and not having come up with anything before “Warbringers: Sylvanas”:
That she comes up with nothing in her entire emotion filled monologue shows she’s been, as you put it, clouded by rage and not thinking clearly any more.
If it wasn’t her plan, she never told Saurfang or any of his soldiers what her real plan was, and thus, to Saurfang, it was never the plan. And once again, was Spuddyc’s point that Sylvanas even laid out exactly how the Horde would lose by being dishonorable, and so lost exactly in that way.
The section is presented as exposition with intended vagueness to be read into, not a spoon feeding of all facts to be known.
People can read our conversation for themselves, as it is all presented right there above, and see what I presented and determine for themselves if they agree or not, regardless of your inability to see it.
Certainly does. That’s what being the Night Warrior entails:
Tyrande Whisperwind says: With this offering, I demand to wear your darkest face.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Elune! Make me the instrument of your vengeance!
Tyrande Whisperwind says: Now, we shall have justice. The Night warrior lives... within me.
It does. Ivar Bloodfang and his pact have had no connection to the Night Elves before. It means that Sylvanas has actually unified forces from the Eastern Kingdoms to leave Gilneas and support the Night Elves in taking back Darkshore, which, once again, was the opposite of what Sylvanas wanted.
Which, once again, was Spuddyc’s point that Sylvanas lied to the Horde and still lost the war exactly in the way she said they would if they tried to win dishonorably.
And, as with Genn and the Night Elves, not having an understanding of the people she’s trying to play, in this case Saurfang.
And I expect the opposite, that nothing will come of it. Or, obviously, I rather would prefer that nothing comes of it.
You are factually wrong, and I will stop responding to you if that is what you want.
They were told for years that people thought Malfurion was boring and didn’t support the Alliance enough and that they should kill Malfurion off, and instead they had him live and become very supportive of the Alliance and far more people have praised Malfurion’s presentation since and no longer consider him boring.
So telling Blizzard to split the Alliance might just make them make the Alliance even more unified instead, and why they softened Genn’s leave and making Anduin understanding and supportive of it.
I assume they would have the Horde and Alliance be on the brink of peace between Saurfang and Anduin, but just before that could be made concrete they would have Tyrande come kill Saurfang so Anduin could scold Tyrande the way Varian scolded Jaina after the Purge of Dalaran and, of course, Tyrande in A Little Patience.
PC Gamer: For a long time the conflict between the Alliance and the Horde has been ignored in favor of dealing with external threats, like the Burning Legion. Why is now the right time to respark the animosity that started it all?
Alex Afrasiabi: We feel the Alliance-Horde divide is foundational and fundamental to World of Warcraft as a franchise and as a story, but we danced around it for a very long time. We’ve had run-ins, we’ve had close calls, but we’ve never been able to finish it—to have that resolution. We’re coming out of this expansion, Legion, and the world is not in a great place—the players and the factions themselves are not in a great place because there is all of this old animosity that hasn’t been resolved. It’s time to resolve it.
Three factions…or one?
Since Afrasiabi brought up the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas option, Mitch pressed him about the idea of splitting the Horde into separate factions for each camp. While the idea would be “thematically cool and appropriate for this scenario,” Afrasiabi explained that creating a third faction would really mean splitting up friendships and guilds since factions cannot adventure together. His preference would be the other way: that the Alliance and Horde could group together “one of these days.”
“That is the bigger meta lesson of Azeroth,” he concluded, “that these battles that we fought, even when we are separated, are for the same damn purpose. For our home.”
Here’s the thing. I don’t want anything to do with the Horde having to atone for anything. If you want an atonement narrative, fine, but have it in the Saurfang novel, or something. Not in the game.
Because I have no control over the narrative. I don’t like it, I don’t like where it has gone this entire expansion, and I don’t feel responsible for it. I play games to have fun, not to be told that I should feel bad for decisions that Blizzard’s writers made.
But, they could have just blown up the fleet to do that. The invasion and attacking Rastakhan was pointless. In fact their distraction arguably saved quite a bit of the fleet, and those lives were utterly wasted. As far as the reasoning Anduin gives, they didn’t sever the ties between the Zandalari and the Horde, they just weakened the Zandalari and drove them into the Horde.
At best what you’re describing is a situation where the head doesn’t know what it’s hands are doing.
Which is also relevant, given that if the purpose of the attack was to destroy the Zandalari fleet in order to focus on Sylvanas, killing Rastakhan and then not pressing the attack because they killed him is completely backwards.
So? People can have deep-seated regrets and shames and still provide correct reasoning.
I was referring to after she gives the order and Saurfang notes that her anger has disappeared. Regardless, someone being angry is not an indication of their thinking being flawed.
She was thinking about multiple things around the same time. First her objective, then how both her and Saurfang’s actions concerning Malfurion had undermined that objective, then what would happen given the current circumstances, then the possibility of outside interference having worked against them, then she starts to think of a new way to inflict the wound when Delaryn interrupts her.
She’s not just muddling around spinning her wheels, she considers every aspect of the situation relevant to her overarching strategy before considering how to meet her goals with an alternative method, and then someone grabs her attention. We might say the idea of Teldrassil was spurred on by her interaction with Delaryn, but she wasn’t just incoherently lost.
She doesn’t even attempt to start to come up with something new until the end of her dialog though. You’re framing someone reviewing the situation as being unstable for not immediately seizing on a new plan.
Saurfang knew the basics, his role was in advancing her tactical aims, not to know the entire strategy for the war. You might say not telling him was a critical flaw considering that he allowed Malfurion to escape, but that was an absurd blunder even within the confines of what Saurfang knew.
As I note later, that isn’t much the case.
I’m certainly not seeing what you’re seeing in that vagueness.
Okay? I’ve read your reasoning, and I disagree.
Even if we accept that it was a blessing more of Elune than Tyrande, it still has absolutely no relevance. It was just a temporary buff that disappears after the quest is done, and the Worgen seen afterwards haven’t changed in any notable regard.
But the Worgen and the Night Elves aren’t the Alliance, they’re just two factions within the Alliance. As it is they’ve grown closer while also growing more ideologically, and militarily, distinct from Anduin and Stormwind.
Side note, the Worgen leaving the Horde’s weaker front and attacking on their stronger front is arguably a good thing.
The bolded section is the issue here. If Sylvanas’ goal is to divide the Alliance, she is still on track for that. In the previous sections you didn’t quote, I note that rather than undermining the idea as she’s presented it to Saurfang, she was just lying about that being the only way in order to garner his support and fight the war in a way the Horde would be comfortable with.
If the idea that she lied is correct, then that means the contingency that she herself set that the only way to win and divide the Alliance was by fighting honorably was false. Which aligns with the fact that Sylvanas keeps saying that the war is on track to achieve her objectives.
Whether or not you think that means a loss for the Horde depends on what you think those objectives are, how they’ll come about, and how they’ll affect the Horde. Personally, I think her main objective right now is to destroy the Alliance. Most material we have shows that she wants that.
Nobody could have foreseen that Saurfang would let Malfurion go. It doesn’t even align in terms of being honorable, and it would result in a ton of Horde blood being shed down the road. Not to mention that it was brought about from a literal deus ex machina.
At most she should have just stayed to make sure he did it.
Not sure why you have that preference. Anyway, it’s a major setup, something will happen with it at some point.
Right, like making things up that contradicts our available information is such a reasonable position. Stop if you want on that basis.
What? Those two things make no sense together. On the one hand you have people thinking Malfurion was boring and disliking that he didn’t support the Alliance, so Blizzard responds by having him support the Alliance and fight the Horde. On the other hand, you have people saying the Alliance is too static, boring, reactionary, super good, or unified, and the solution is supposed to be them doubling down on all those things?
In the first situation Malfurion effectively switched gears to what people wanted from him, but in the second situation Blizzard is supposed to do the opposite of what people want by continuing to do what they’ve done for years?
As far as I’m concerned this is all good. And if Anduin were to scold Tyrande, she should just tell him off.
I think that would be a very poor outcome. You’d have Tyrande going from no mercy mode and blaming Saurfang for the war to her just chastising him. At that point she may as well just be wearing eyeshadow.
Afrasiabi says right there that they consider the divide to be foundational and fundamental to the franchise. They can’t “resolve” it by doing the exact same thing they’ve done every time before. In your next quoted section he talks about how he’d rather allow the factions to group together rather than create a third faction. I think overall that may mean the Alliance and Horde both effectively being dissolved as institutions.
I really don’t think so, there is a hint of a division… but it hasn’t mutated into anything the likes of which Sylvanas was planning on. The story line, at this point, has the Alliance still more or less united and winning on both fronts, despite what very little division we have seen. On the other hand, you have literal rebellion forming in the Hordes ranks over her ‘dishonorable’ methods… with a whole batch of new leaders preparing to turn on her.
It does to Saurfang, obviously, who was sold on an honorable victory. Perhaps Sylvanas severely misjudged Saurfangs values and views of honorable combat, since he clearly believes by interfering in the duel, from behind no less, is what constitutes a dishonorable victory over Malfurion. The objectives, as they were sketched by Saurfang early on, were again still in effect so long as they take the tree, which they were in prime position to do having just conquered Ashenvale and Darkshore, with the remaining Alliance forces evacuating Darnassus.
You’re right in that Sylvanas obviously lied about what her objectives were with the man she tasked with planning the entire thing, and that’s the point I think I expanded on in previous replies.
Anduin most definitely is shown consistently as having no idea what’s going on. And in the initial Alliance War Campaign quests in Vol’dun showed that High Commander Halford Wyrmbane is an excessively inefficient leader, and Shandris instead merely accomplishing his objectives more directly instead of in the convoluted manner Wyrmbane wanted to use.
Yet Shandris is still working with Wyrmbane come Nazjatar after Dazar’alor, as the Alliance remains united despite all of the above.
Further pressing on the Zandalari isn’t necessary, as is evident by the Zandalari not having been able to do anything against the Alliance ever since Dazar’alor.
Saurfang shows incorrect reasoning in forgetting what the wound that would split the Alliance was (being the idea that Genn would leave the Alliance if it went to support Teldrassil over Gilneas) and he was forgetting that because he was overwhelmed with regret and shame.
That was after she had already burned Teldrassil. And being angry alone is not an indication of their thinking being flawed, no. But thinking flawed can happen - which Sylvanas did, as analyzed - and can be explained by a person being overwhelmed with anger.
We then have two interpretations:
Mine: Sylvanas forgets what her plan is in a moment of emotional compromise and burns Teldrassil in a lack of inhibition and sense, throwing away her entire plan to split the Alliance.
Yours: Sylvanas lied to Saurfang and the Horde and was intending to destroy the Night Elves all along without telling anyone, but had still admitted to Saurfang that the Alliance would unite if the Horde tried to win dishonorably.
Either way, Sylvanas costs the Horde everything and was never going to split the Alliance.
She wasn’t able to come up with anything, and even issued the orders to prepare to invade the tree before Delaryn got her attention. She wouldn’t have come up with burning Teldrassil at all if Delaryn hadn’t talked to her and pushed her over the edge.
It was also an absurd blunder on Sylvanas’ part, who specifically told Saurfang that the Alliance would unite if the Horde won dishonorably, when Saurfang was the kind of person for whom winning honorably included near arbitrary dueling rules that could be enacted and adhered to at any moment. Sylvanas consistently doesn’t understand the people she’s dealing with.
You certainly do, as you know you also don’t know what Sylvanas real plan was, assuming she was lying to Saurfang and Horde the whole time.
And at least seven others do not disagree, and I’ll take their support over your dismissal.
Worgen haven’t even gotten their model updates yet, it would be unreasonable to expect they would also get character customization like the Night Elves did when they aren’t even in their finalized customization yet.
Except it’s not distinct from Anduin and Stormwind, as both Shandris and Genn are simultaneously supporting Anduin and Stormwind at the same time they are supporting the Night Elves at Darkshore.
I do agree, though, that leaving the Horde’s weaker front and pushing them out of Darkshore was a good thing.
She could have been making up something to Saurfang in saying the Alliance would unite if the Horde did not win honorably to get him into doing what she wanted, but then as addressed up above, she both made him think he had to act honorably, which included sparing Malfurion, and also ended up being right even if she didn’t intend to be that acting dishonorably in burning Teldrassil did unite the Alliance against her as they all came for Lordaeron.
As you had also commented, Horde soldiers seek to die honorable deaths in combat. Saurfang even thought Malfurion killing him in Astranaar would have been an honorable way to go. Further fighting against Malfurion would have resulted in more blood shed, yes. Blood shed that Horde soldiers could have very well reveled in and died happily in, if their senses of honor could be held intact. Whatever that entails.
Blizzard has a consistent track record of ignoring major setups and forgetting about them, especially when it comes to the Night Elves.
And it’s my preference because I’d rather the Night Elves not be responsible for more war, especially when the narrative can say that Tyrande would be wrong to and Anduin should have been listened to all along. That would be further kicking of the Night Elves that I am absolutely against.
Not making things up. Merely speculating and acknowledging things as agnostic until confirmed. That’s not headcanon. Assuming something that hasn’t been confirmed is the definition of headcanon, which is your status quo assumption.
Once again, I stand by that you are factually wrong in assuming status quo is canon. And I will stop conversation on the basis of your insisting otherwise to promote your headcanon as canon.
Key there is people wanted Malfurion dead, which was what Blizzard didn’t go with.
And likewise, Blizzard can make the Alliance races more distinctive and independent without copying the internal drama that is the staple to the Horde narrative so far.
And get villain batted to stop the war.
Forcing Saurfang to atone for his crimes for the rest of his days is far less merciful than simply killing him so he will suffer no longer.
Or unified into a single global institution to stand against global threats.
And then all players could play together. War Mode could be Anarchy Mode, where everyone is a PvP target if you’re not grouped with them, like many of the PvP gameplay activations already in game.
Why not. We’ve already had two Saurfang cinematics dedicated to the theme that the Horde sucks and we should feel bad for having picked red at the selection screen. What’s one more?
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")