Currently progressing in heroic CN. I find my output is perfectly fine… until my mana hits 0, with minimal overheal and using mana tea/TFT/mana pot on CD. Yet a paladin can do just as much healing or more without ever dipping below 50%. Shaman is at 40% while I’m on 4%.
Heroic hasn’t been terrible honestly, I usually go oom towards the very end of an encounter, but my guild wants to begin mythic progression in the next few weeks… Is there any hope for us MW monks? I love the MW playstyle, the monk class fantasy… I’ve started fistweaving recently and I love it. But the mana issues just really ruin it for me in raid and m+.
I’ve started leveling a resto druid. 
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I liked your format in the first post.
Here’s my take on it:
Last week, pugging heroic Generals since I wasn’t there for the weekly kill. It was a guild so I was pretty confident about the group.
Join Discord
Random person 1: Ho a mistweaver ugh…
Random person 2: I know
Random person 1: Ok… uhm so moving on
Like why is this even happening it’s so demoralizing. It doesn’t even matter that I have purple and orange parses, we’re a bunch of memes.
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Happens in RBGs, probably even in low CR brackets as well.
You get declined by 90% of groups, and when you get into one, the collective ire from the group is immediately felt in comms.
Everyone is so focused on FotM, games been like that forever, so if you aren’t meta or busted (like Hpal), they’re like “please gtfo”. Oh, and god forbid you lose a single match. Could be 100% unrelated to your performance, another heals could be actual garbage and it’s “Sorry man, we’re going to look for a different heal comp” (i.e. no MW).
You just can’t take offense to any softhead comments. Move on. We’re not “meta” or even meta’s distant cousin, twice removed, etc. IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER AT THIS POINT * knock on wood *
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You’re looking at this whole situation the wrong way. That group is the perfect group. If you get stay you have a chance to show them how good a MW really is in CN. Stone Legion is a good easy fight to heal and it works super well for MW. You show up and outheal all the other healers. It is that easy. Throw down 6k hps while doing 700-1000dps and ask them if the other healers are afk at the end of the fight.
I love getting raid groups like this.
Normally I don’t go for healing logs because they are largely useless. But if I was in that raid group I’d parse an easy 97% to shut them up.
This is our 2/3/9 set up, Fist weaver just blankets everyone with EF and Aotm heals Disc priest focuses tanks and Resto shaman focuses raid. Cooldowns rotated as needed. Sure we see a bit of Monk over healing but it really smooths a lot of situations and that bit of extra dps is nice.
I think they want to punish certain play styles by making them inefficient mana wise. The problem is MW brings very little utility, their utility is through put but now you are saying if you use that utility you will be oom and useless.
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Always interesting when people respond to these posts by touting how great they are and that the class is “fine” yet don’t have logs to support them/the logs they do have tell another story entirely.
Just…wild.
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Here you go. We really don’t have low raw HPS. We just have a low enthusiasm in the class problem.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/#dataset=90&metric=hps
Mythic healing raw HPS is fine for MW. You have the same value a Rdruid / Hpriest has. We are in a much better spot right now then for 8.1.5-8.3. It only comes down to utility which is why Rshaman/Hpally/Disc is played so much more. However, at this point in the tier you don’t actually need that utility anymore.
Utility is something MW just never really brings to a raid.
MW also has never been a highly played spec except for uldir. Usually we only go downhill from the first tier. Better enjoy the spec now if history is anything to go by.
Our mythic+ play rate for 15 is about the same for mythic raiding.
7.69 shaman : 1 monk —>for mythic+15
7.25 shaman : 1 monk —> mythic raiding.
looks to be about the same play rate.
PvP is a mess. It really isn’t our meta. Our meta was in 8.3. I am sure meta will change in the next patch and we might move up who knows.
Like I said, MW plays good it’s just FOTM tells every1 to go play shaman / Hpally. Also it is kind of hard for people to play MW when Hpally is a direct upgrade from MW. Most people can’t handle that. I mention all the time that Hpally stole the MW identity. This wont be fixed anytime soon.
I play MW because I enjoy the spec and I am very happy with fistweaving in current state. There’s a few things I would love to change but we only got better from 8.3. Hard to hate the spec when you played it in 8.3.
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Like you’ve acknowledged, HPS only tells part of the story.
The majority of FW healing is still slow and steady rot healing. When my EF heals a raid member at 95% it technically contributes to HPS but is not particularly useful. This is majority of the ATOTM healing, upwelling, RJW, and EF healing that makes up the vast majority of our HPS. Yes we can triage through Vivify but if you are playing RJW odds are you don’t have much mana left to Vivify outside of Mana Tea.
Compare that to a resto shaman who’s main healing is using Riptide to save the lowest HP raider. Or compare it to a Disc Priest who’s main healing is Spirit Shell absorbing damage from the boss’s highest threat abilities. Or a Paladin who’s immunity nullifies mechanics in M CN. Even though we seem to just keep up in HPS, it is a far less useful kind of healing than what meta healers are bringing.
This is just one of the factors that helps us understand why months into the expansion only two Mistweavers have killed Sire Denathrius - and looking at their comparatively low HPS for those kills they essentially needed to be carried for playing an off meta class
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#metric=hps&class=Healers&boss=2407
It sucks to have spent months progressing covenant activities, Ven’ari Rep, and Thorgast to be sitting at 1/10M wondering when your raid team is eventually going to bench you unless you reroll.
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I just cleared normal CN and about to start on heroic. The biggest thing I have noticed is the same thing many have echoed in this thread already. Mana! I feel like we have amazing HPS but it comes at a costly premium. I’ve learned to keep a steady eye on my mana bar and trust the other healers more. It doesn’t take much careless healing to completely run yourself out of mana. I haven’t tried fistweaving yet, hard to break old habits. I’ve asked our other healers how their mana is looking towards the end of the encounters ( resto shaman and disc priest) and both have told me their fine. I, on the other hand, am sweating that next mana tea to come off cd. I have logs that you’re welcome to check although be warned its nothing special, just a lot of beginner mistakes on my part. Anyway, my whole rant is -Mana! We need spell cost reduced just a little.
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It’s vert strange. As an hpal in raid I look at other healers mana at 0% at the end and i have 60%. I don’t know how to spend mana any faster. Meanwhile MW are begging and pleading for hope hymns, manatides, and innervates too. I feel very sorry for mistweaver brothers and sisters
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Hopefully you’re all aware there’s an actual official Mistweaver thread on the main forum - State of Mistweaver PVP - Shadowlands (Week 1)
The monk section is dead… way less people will see these responses in here.
Seems a little PVP focused in that thread though.
That does not address the MW PVE issues.
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I don’t know why Denathrius is so low for MW because every other fight in CN we can keep up. Maybe the time length of Denathrius is the problem? Sucks to only see 3 monk logs for Denathrius, but in the end, that is a world first raider problem. Not many people play at that level and it’s their problem if they do.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the type of healing your doing or the utility at this point. Your not a CE raider just like the other 95% of the monks on these forums. If your guild benches you I would find a new guild tbh. Your guild is 2/10M they have no reason to bench you. They will be begging you to heal kael as well. You can heal up to Mythic Generals just fine as a MW monk at this point in the expac.
If your a MW monk don’t get down on yourself. You can easily keep up with other healers in raid. You don’t need the utility / perfect heal team to complete 10/10M. We over gear everything already + the nerfs.
Most of the monks crying on these forums are really bad. Just look at their logs and you’ll understand they have no clue how to heal so they blame the spec. They cry about monk because it isn’t used in world first kills and yet they don’t even have 5/10m. If you really enjoy MW keep playing it.
I do enjoy playing MW, but people are allowed to want their situation to be better. Like we do have mana problems. We do not bring any utility to the raid. That is just a fact.
Some of people complaining still like the class, but liking the class does not mean we cannot wish the situation to be better. Its less “my class sucks I’m going to reroll” and more “Hey, I like how this plays, but we could use some changes to make it feel better.”
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No its the people complaining who have no clue what they’re talking about. Like this new idea that MW should be broken into two specs. Like what??
We’ve never brought utility and most likely never will. I would accept this and move on. I would also value MW as being more desirable then Hpriest / Rdruid as well. A lot of these forum monks don’t understand we are in a pretty good unusually good position right now.
We don’t have mana problems in raid unless your playing the spec wrong. At that point it’s your fault not the spec. I should also mention we don’t really have mana problems in m+ unless your in a bad group. In my +15/16’s I sat down to drink maybe 2 or 3x between pulls.
Oh thats an old idea actually. Because since Monk came out there has been the Fistweaving vs Mistweaving split. Some people like one more than the other and thats just a preference thing. It also is a bit of a thematic want because the monk has always been about the Four Celestials, but we only have specs for 3.
And I’ll agree we have it better than Hpriest. And yeah we have never had utility, but wouldn’t it be nice? Like yeah we doing better than we have in recent times(I skipped BFA for personal reasons, but raided heavy in Legion), but like there are so many things that could make it feel better. Its also simply sad how many things we had baseline before that are in talents now because ‘reasons.’(RIP Jade Serpent Statue) But that’s not only a MW thing, every class has some of those.
Like imagine a world with baseline Mana Tea. We all take it anyway.
As for the mana, I agree on M+, I don’t get that high of keys yet, but its not too bad on mana, especially cause Prideful makes that easy. But on raids I do think it can be problematic at times. Like not all fights and not all the time, but like I said before “we could use some changes to make it feel better.”
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Don’t just take this blindly. Its not great on some fights like Destroyer or generals. To get the most mana out of it you need to spam enveloping / vivify / 1 essence font. Most situations in raid you don’t need you to spam enveloping. You’d do better in some situations to just take Spirit of the Crane. A lot of monks are missing this. The only time I ever take Mana Tea is for the big yu’lon moments or Kael.
You’ll usually get more mana out of SotC for stuff like denathrius / generals or destroyer.
edit: My point is paper math is diff from the real world. A lot of monks are now realizing SotC is actually good.
Oh that is perfectly fair. I did not know that, but I also don’t do the Fistweaver style though. I’m not always in a position where I can make good enough usage out of SotC.
Its a preference I have had since playing monk in MoP, I like doing the Mistweaver style and that means I’m not always in melee range.
So it seems like its a scenario where Fistweaver is in a better spot mana wise right now compared to Mistweaver.
That also contributes to the want for the split of the specs. People don’t like to be forced to do Fistweaving.
But regardless, I reread what you have said throughout this thread and I agree we have good enough throughput right now, with both ‘styles’ mistweaving and fistweaving. It just requires good mana management and it is possible.
I do wish that the costs could be a little lower, but as you said somewhere up there it might come at a cost of our throughput, which is all we have right now because we don’t bring utility. I don’t think a little mana buff would make us OP, but thats just an opinion.
I respect what you’re saying and agree that if people enjoy the spec they should keep playing it. However, the logs truly don’t lie. A similarly geared healer of almost any other class has and often does outperform a mw with similar stats and those classes provide more utility to their raid. This is true for like all fights in CN rn.
You might be at the top of your logs but that says more about your raid comp than it does about you. Bc there is no way you should be above the resto shammies in your raid in terms of pure hps. You’re obviously great at monk but again – other classes do more raw healing and provide more for substantially less. It is normal for people to be calling attention to this. Not everyone has a raid lead that is going to give credence to your arguments. Or has a comp like yours with other classes providing DR/brezzes/whatever else. Gear creep is totally real and you’re right it makes the encounters more doable. But it doesn’t solve the fact that other classes have utility that makes encounters in CN MUCH more seamless than anything mw has. No one sees any raids begging for a mw for Kael. They could get a hpally to provide another BOP to nullify ember blast for example. Or a holy priest with flash concentration leggo and not have to be fed chain innervates.
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