Let's help fix the problem: Layering Solutions

[Shocknyou-arthas (Shocknyou)]

In this thread I think it may be helpful to offer solutions to the problem. The community can then “like” the post that offers the best solution. Perhaps this can be a way to measure feedback for Blizzard on what they may want to do?

After thinking about this for a while I have decided that the best possible solution, in my opinion (since Blizzard demands on it…not because I like it at all I freakin’ hate it), is…

Sharding (not CRZ) for the initial few zones at launch. It doesn’t exist in contested areas. Server population caps at about 6-9k.

This to me seems to be a much better solution than full continent layering and months of exploitation.

[Mergons-terenas]

layering > sharding.

With sharding u have 100 people, and then above 20 u have 6k people.

With layering u have a steady 3k.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

@Shocknyou-arthas

After thinking about this for a while I have decided that the best possible solution, in my opinion (since Blizzard demands on it…not because I like it at all I freakin’ hate it), is…

@Shocknyou-arthas

Sharding is the beginning of problems. Not even touches the surface.

So what you’re saying is, on reflection you were wrong.

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

So what you’re saying is, on reflection you were wrong.

After watching the latest batchs of videos of people exploiting/being bounced around layers, people shouldn’t be knocked for changing their opinions.

[Caskaska-sargeras]

Here’s a short list of possible exploits you can do with Layering on beta and bugs you can experience;

A. Layer hop for Arena Master
https://clips.twitch.tv/MagnificentFastSageMoreCowbell

B. Farm the same node spot for Mining and Herbalism
https://www.twitch.tv/moo_uk/clip/PatientGloriousMomTBTacoRight

C. Rares will despawn if you group up with players ON THE SAME LAYER
https://www.twitch.tv/cdewx/clip/SpicyCoyTurtleBrokeBack?
https://www.twitch.tv/asmongold/clip/SassyScaryCaribouTheTarFu?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=63&v=8lH_1kUAA0g

If you think this is fine then you want Classic to fail, there’s no two ways about it.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

After watching the latest batch of videos of people exploiting/being bounced around layers, people shouldn’t be knocked for changing their opinions.

That’s bugs. The whole point of the beta test. Layering isn’t by any means ready or finished, and it’s what the stress tests are for. The concept is sound, as long as the implementation is completed.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

If you want actual feedback on fixing the Layering problems, instead of “Fix layering by throwing it away!” like the usual nonsense.

@Eloraell-moon-guard

Here are a few of my ideas:

1. Layer changes only happen at an Inn or City - This would prevent people from being able to switch layers while sitting on a node point by jumping from group to group. It wouldn’t interfere friends grouping up, because while you’d have to go back to an Inn, you’re not grouping for a second, so the % of time travelling would be minimal, and if you’re not even with the friends when you group, you’d have to travel past an inn or flight point anyway.
2. Default Layer binding - When you start the game, you are bound to a default layer ID. When you log out and log in, without being grouped, you return to that default layer every time. If a layer gets too full (e.g because it was assigned across the period of a day, then all the assigned people get logged in at once) then you may have your default layer changed next time you go into an Inn or City. That new default would remain your default. When you leave a group that caused a layer change, you would return to your default layer, when you enter an inn or city.
3. You can only change layers once every 10 minutes - Even if you group up, you can only change layers once every 10 minutes, except for returning to your default layer. This prevents people from hopping from layer to layer constantly. The only reason to group up should be to have friends play together, and if you keep changing friends every 5 minutes, are they really your friends?

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

I don’t think the login/logout exploit that we have seen since the beginning of beta is a bug.

[Yinjing-tichondrius]

Here’s a short list of possible exploits you can do with Layering on beta and bugs you can experience;

A. Layer hop for Arena Master
https://clips.twitch.tv/MagnificentFastSageMoreCowbell

B. Farm the same node spot for Mining and Herbalism
https://www.twitch.tv/moo_uk/clip/PatientGloriousMomTBTacoRight

C. Rares will despawn if you group up with players ON THE SAME LAYER
https://www.twitch.tv/cdewx/clip/SpicyCoyTurtleBrokeBack?
https://www.twitch.tv/asmongold/clip/SassyScaryCaribouTheTarFu?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=63&v=8lH_1kUAA0g

If you think this is fine then you want Classic to fail, there’s no two ways about it.

Its a beta test. This is a test environment. Not a public release.

Also the most recent iteration has implemented artificial layering to test this methodology to scale.

Not sound examples.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I don’t think the login/logout exploit that we have seen since the beginning of beta is a bug.

Default Layer binding - When you start the game, you are bound to a default layer ID. When you log out and log in, without being grouped, you return to that default layer every time.

That one isn’t. Which is why instead of throwing out layering, it needs to be fixed.

There are problems with the implementation, but baby+bath water is not the solution, and us discussing the actual solutions would be far better use of the community’s time.

[Kunou-ragnaros]

Layering as it currently is on beta cannot go live. It’s so game breaking and ugly…
Unfortunately, I don’t expect Actiblizzard to make big changes at this development stage. This pains me as it will ruin the experience of the first months leaving some permanent damage

I actually sorta like the Inn layering restriction some proposed. I think it’s a cool idea that could be expanded upon and also goes well with the RPG theme.

Here is what I proposed as soon as they announced the layering (sharding 2.0):

Subrealms: Classic Solution to Modern Population

I’m not going to address the lot of problems that this new “layering” system (basically sharding 2.0) they introduced to us a couple days ago bring with it, as there are many other threads that do so better than I possibly could. Instead of patching one issue at a time to eliminate exploits (which will happen as it is) and for the sake of keeping the Classic experience authentic I propose a simple solution: Subrealms. What are subrealms? Read below. It’s simple. Basically, we have a realm cal…

[Fobnop-turalyon (Fobnop)]

Since they’re insistent on having layering then just get rid of it asap. Don’t wait until “phase 2”, remove it as soon as the initial influx of players clears the starting areas.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

Here is what I proposed as soon as they announced layering (sharding 2.0)

The problem is that at this time, we have layering with tweaks as the only realistic outcome. Any other “broad sweeping solution” is going to be ignored because they’ve put so much time and effort into layering and they’re running out of testing time.

[Kunou-ragnaros]

The problem is that at this time, we have layering with tweaks as the only realistic outcome. Any other “broad sweeping solution” is going to be ignored because they’ve put so much time and effort into layering and they’re running out of testing time.

Yep. That’s my main concern What have they done to my baby ?

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

@Fobnop-turalyon

Don’t wait until “phase 2”, remove it as soon as the initial influx of players clears the starting areas.

“A few weeks” not “Phase 2”.

Layering: Few Weeks or Phase 1

For all the people saying that Blizzard never promised they’d remove layering after a few weeks Timestamp: 6:00: We’re going to continue that process over the first few weeks, till eventually we will collapse down, and we promise we will do this a few weeks in, to a single world per realm, no sharding, none of that going forward. Then the bit that gets the wrong attention. We know that needs to happen before we do something like turn on the World Bosses for example. When we have Kazzak …

[Caskaska-sargeras]

Part 2 of the list:

D. Enemy players and Players from your own faction will phase in and out ruining pvp. You can also use this to your advantage to escape pvp situations.
https://clips.twitch.tv/MoistSoftGullWholeWheat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fncH0hDFFo&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LItduEtb8ds&feature=youtu.be

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

It just seems like it is baked into their tech. They can’t have a layer with 10 people and layer with 3k people. The solution (it appears) is to balance them as people login.

Seems like there are two solutions:

1. Shard the first few zones (1-25 or whatever). This is what they pitched at Blizcon.

2. Or keep the layers totally static until they merge them.

[Belkira-tichondrius]

The biggest problem you won’t see Blizzard admitting is that their current server architecture can’t support large populations in small areas. We seen in BFA that even when you get ~20 people together outside of instanced content that there is a significant decrease in performance.

The argument that Blizzard is using layering to improve the initial launch experience for players is a PR stunt. Layering is being used because they are aware of the interest in classic and know that their systems can’t handle the influx unless they move back to dedicated servers, which they won’t do.

[Fobnop-turalyon (Fobnop)]

Fair enough. I’ll believe it when I see it happen. Blizz promises so much they don’t deliver.

[Kunou-ragnaros]

and know that their systems can’t handle the influx unless they move back to dedicated servers, which they won’t do.

Understandable. Actiblizzard is a growing indie game company, after all.