I’m not sure where we are arguing. All of the content I do on my characters is PuG so I’m in the same group. The main difference being that I’ve been a tank for a long time on a lot of characters, so I have the practice to know what I’m doing etc.
I’ve got two healers stuck in the mid 70s-80s because I can’t stand healing terrible tanks anymore.
Yeah all part of the 36 specs not 12 classes deal.
I get the whole balance aspect that they removed it for, but honestly they should just balance around the more optimal one (for dps) and then if people want to use a slightly less optimal weapon type they can at the slight expense of being less competitive.
Sorry I don’t remember the point in which not having perfect stat priorities made you unable to do content.
We aren’t talking about exclusively Mythic raiding or high M+, because lets face it skill is more important than gear and if people are doing that content in those roles they will be doing it with experience and thus gear.
Probably because most of us are speaking from experience. I loved to tank and heal in previous expansions but now it’s too much of a headache to get the azerite and essences to make it worth it.
I’m always going to do WQs and solo quests in dps spec, so that’s what gets geared first. BFA trains you to just stay as your dps spec and punishes you if you try to expand your roster.
OP - I agree with some of your points.
Azerite traits suck, and make it frustrating to play different specs early in a tier. Later in a tier it’s less painful because you have full sets for each spec.
What i’ve always liked though, is having different sets of gear for different specs. I don’t think we could go back to that in its most basic form - e.g. druids needing an Intellect set and an Agility set.
But I do think each classes specs having quite different secondary stats to focus on is really good. It’s not ANNOYING to respec like traits are, but it does encourage the farming of lots of different gear to build strong sets.
Right now we’re in some bizarre no-mans-land where you can respec instantly, but you just feel bad and sub-optimal if you don’t go and re-trait too. Which takes ages by the way - oh dear lord I wish you could disable the spinning wheels or set up templates. But, nope, watch them circles spin!!
It’s just weird, as the whole reason they removed visiting class trainers and paying gold to respec was because it’s ANNOYING. And yet here we are.
Prior to WoD you had to change literally every slot of gear but now having head/shoulders/chest is game breaking?
Every time somebody complains about a lack of tanks from now on, I’m just going to link this thread from last week:
And quote my post in the same thread:
I can tell OP has never played this game since cata because let me tell you. This game, as it stands has NEVER been this easy to play multiple specs and gear those specs at the same time. Itimization for specs in the past were vastly different.
I can just between arms, fury, and prot with little effort, outside of AZ traits and trinkets, and of course weapons. That was unheard of in classic, BC and even Wrath. You needed to carry around 2 whole sets of gear just to be able to do that. There are far more tanks now, then there ever has been because of how easy it is to get tank and another spec.
Also if you want more warrior tanks bring back glad stance.
Wasn’t that the same reason BDK self heals got nerfed? i read a ton of healers actually complaining that DK’s were downright outhealing them and that they needed to be taken down a peg or two, and they actually did nerf them LMAO.
It’s like “we need you, but we don’t like you” 
Thats just because DKs have, and always will be, especially blood, one of the most broken classes in the game in tanking, solo, and pvp simply because of how their class tanks compared to other classes. Blizzard did something unique for them and in the process opened up pandoras box.
The entire meter system is dumb. And how blizzard handles the combat log, off of which meters are based.
Absorbs show up as “heals” on the combat log, but reductions from armor don’t. Not only does it freak out healers, but it also leads people to sometimes pursue the wrong tanking strategies, because they’re chasing the meters instead of focusing on damage reduction, because damage reduction is invisible to the combat log.
I have literally left 3 dungeons as a tank in a single day because of jerk players doing stupid crap and treating me poorly because I’m not kissing their butts. And i honestly don’t care that i left. You wanna ruin my fun by being a grade A jerk? then I’ll ruin yours by leaving the group to rot. Everyone wants tanks, but when they get one they make things more difficult for them. Which causes people to drop the role.
This, just all of this. But thats not just an issue tanks have, its the whole LFG system that has that problem.
Shouldn’t the other tank specs get a little boost instead of nerfing the ones that are good instead?
I mean, here we’re talking about tank scarcity and yet you’re celebrating that a tank spec gets nerfed? did you also celebrate when avatar/clap got nerfed? DK’s definitely lost a ton of spotlight during BFA and the meta turned towards monks, now monks had stagger and their self heals nerfed, who will be next? tanks RARELY get any buffs due to this contentious mentality.
This is so true, but I don’t blame the meters for using the information available I blame people who are just too stupid to bother understanding anything.
Logical/critical thinking is a lost art apparently.
Gladiator satance was a DPS option, not a tank spec.
If you are advocating that Gladiator be a 4th spec added to Warrior, I’m all for that. The reason it was removed is still valid, it made balancing Prot Warrior gear for tanking and dps a nightmare and made the spec worse overall (the same problem that Guardian and Feral had for a long time being in the same tree).
Only DK specifically because they as a class have introduced nothing but complications in the game. When a tank class has the ability to solo at level content like raids and heroic dungeons, there is an inherent problem with that class in that it becomes so good, that vastly surpasses every other class.
The issue of “tanks arnt fun” is not an issue of balance/strength, its an issue of, well the mechanics of the class just are not enjoy able to play. Prot warrior right now is just horrible to play in my opinion, and the least fun i have ever had with the spec in all my year playing this game. Thats the real issue here, blizzard took the fun mechanics out and forced really crappy ones at us, and then are shocked when no one wants to play them. For me, i hate ignore pain, i hate everything about the mechanic, i hate the way it works, i hate the way it scales, everything, but its forced down on me, and i have no choice but to use it. Warriors have always been a damage reduction tank, and then we are being forced to use a absorb mechanic. it just feel horrible to use. Thats just my opinion on it.
If they added it as a 4th i would love it, but it was considered one of the best and most enjoyable thing prot warriors had.
For me its like shattering throw, when it was removed most people just kinda asked…why? it was good and fun, why get rid of it?
I’ve mained a Prot Warrior and was playing while it was out. The APM and general …upkeep on the stance was meh for me.
I can see why other players loved it and I’d like it to be a 4th spec option, I just don’t want it to be in the Prot Spec ever again.
Personally I’d love to see every class in the game get a 4th spec and for every class to be able to tank or heal.
As neat as that would be, there are thousands of ret only paladin, windwalker only monks, feral only druids.
People don’t even try it.