A 4 month necro to rant about “the decline of civilization”…
Yes. The subset of people who ban books, attempt to establish a state religion, deny election results, and deny women control of their bodies are to blame for holding civilization back. I remember that every time I go vote.
because im not a woman
You don’t have to be a woman to look up to female characters.
What does that have to do with your inability to look up to female characters in books or movies? I mean, who doesn’t look up to characters like Ripley from the alien movies or Selene from the Underworld movies.
People are weird
Personally, I don’t find it too egregious for the most part, save for the fact that they keep misrepresenting the lore of the characters and write shallow imitations of the characters compared to what they were meant to be. The one instance where I think Blizzard was stupid, is Ysera coming back at the cost of an existing character who the game has barely ever tried actually exploring despite his relevance in the greater universe or even her own living heir. Which I find doubly problematic because Ysera’s depiction was a being who accepted Nature’s flow and wouldn’t defy it even if she could, something you can see even in passages saying that even if she had the ability to permanently mold the Emerald Dream into something else, it flies completely in the face of her beliefs to do so, I.E. her returning to life via unnatural means just fundamentally shows a lack of understanding for her as a character in the writing room.
And maybe the fixation on Chromie for Bronze Dragon rep at the point of excluding ones like Anachronos who is the actual heir of Nozdormu.
I feel like the biggest social issues in the warcraft world are not transgenders, same sex couples or even gender roles.
Its names.
Oh you are a Night Elf? Well clearly you are Lunara Whispergreen or a young green dragon whelp named Emerldia. Time dragon? Well… chrono… chrono… Anachronos! There we go! Thats a great unique name that everyone will love. Seems like everybody has to be on theme when naming their kid.
I can picture it now. “No mom! I don’t want to be Lunara! I want to be called Sunshine”
And the mother goes “I dont even know you anymore!!”
While the father keeps chugging moonberry juice
Thrall, Rokhan, Baine, Anduin, the Vulpera leader, Jin Firepaw, Lor’themar Theron, 2/5 of the Desolate Council, Malfurion Stormrage(he isn’t dead and will be back), The Primus, The dude who replaced Denathrius, Khadgar, 3/5 of the Dragon Aspects, Genn Greymane, Turalyon, Velen, Gazlowe, Mekkatorque, etc etc etc.
Don’t necro your garbage thread again, dumbass.
Yeah, it’s becoming more and more visible, and imo it started with BfA. And the best example is Rastakhan and Talanji. I see no reason why Rasty had to go, there was enough room for both of them. Talanji would work much better as someone who travels around the world and works in the field, is all active. But they had to kill him, make her replace him, and then she became irrelevant afterward.
Which makes this change even more egregious. I’d rather have proper family on the Horde side, and the relationship between Rastakhan and Talanji was very endearing.
I also noticed the DF writing which was too much on the nose to ignore it.
Centaurs are based on Mongolians, and majority of Khans are the females, and personality-wise wise they’re the exact same thing. The only 2 memorable centaurs were scout Tomul and that Oracle/Sage who communicated with On’hara. But Khans? Are incredibly forgettable, they’re bland and lack any real presence. The only one that does is the male, and the only male, and he turns out to be dungeon boss.
This is so predictable it’s laughable.
Oh and the Iskaara Tuskarr, Chieftan dies, and ofc it’s daughter that replaces him. He couldn’t possibly have a son.
Girlbosses, girlbosses everywhere.
I agree with you OP, that I always wanted some more fleshed-out female characters, like I wanted to know more about second-in-command Vanira of the Darkspear Tribe for example. And all of that, we can have lots of great female characters, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of male characters. This game needs the masculine energy.
DF really lacks it, and it feels sterile.
Why exactly do you want the default to be a male character? Why is it so impossible that a female character can suddenly take the reign?
Really? Alexstrasza, Ysera and even Vyranoth are all leaders but are far from “girl bosses” and seems reductive to just consider them that.
Beacuse it’s artificial in this expansion. And I feel that not just WoW that does it but every other media. I want proper organic characters. And honestly there are many more interesting roles than a leader.
I already wrote about how Centaurs fell flat on their faces.
I was not talking about old established characters but the NEW ones. I already provided specific examples, So I have no idea why are you strawmanning. Are you intentionally trying to twist the meaning of my post?
Personally, I think the only reason why it feels artificial is because balanced gender representation among important characters in WoW hasn’t really been the norm. Whether it’s by coincidence or design, I think the real problem it’s exposing is the game offering a lack of exposure to higher numbers of women characters in the first place, and the perceived awkwardness is only a symptom of that.
I always go by my simple rule of If you got your point across, it’s really difficult to twist or strawman the point being made.
People often aren’t as clear as they think they’re being
You’re forgetting that some people might have readingwith comprehention problems, some might be spiteful and purposely mischaracterise what you want to convey, and many more reasons.
Was it not clear to you what I said? My examples weren’t good enough to highlight the issue?
Oh, it was crystal clear to me personally. I knew exactly what point you were making. And Zerde just does that, a lot. I just tell them said point is irrelevant to the discussion at hand and try to move it back to the point being made. Oh, and you’re right about there being people with reading difficulties, but I find that often, people are too eager to try and have a Gotcha moment that they miss the entire point being made.
Which happens on this forum entirely too much mind you
And as far as the game needing more masculine energy or what have you. I personally think the game needs LESS dude bros like Garrosh and Varian and more male characters like Anduin. But that’s me.
You are just reiterating the exact same point I made in another thread.
Baps pandaren with newspaper 
Bad necro… bad!
You only think it is artificial because now you have to deal with a universe that WILL have equal representation to the genders. The worse you can say about it is its idealized and that our world will hopefully follow suit and we will have more female leaders in the futures.
Heck, if anything, franchises are playing catch up. For example, Overwatch, a fairly egalitarian game, had to add 11 female characters to the 6 new male ones since launch just so we reach parity.
Is it really any less organic that having Gelbin or Genn be leader? The choices in leaders have been as arbitrary as anything else.
And people complain regardless of what role female characters play. Hell, someone was complaining on general that the leader of the intro groups are both women in Exile’s reach. If it was a male character no one would bat an eye.
Hence why I specifically mentioned Vyranoth. Others that I found compelling enough are Emberthal and Merithra(yes not exactly new but this is the first expansion she actually gets fleshed out)
No, I think it’s artificial because it’s not a natural growth. Introducing everywhere female leads, while keeping males to either be disposable or secondary is not equal representation. It’s anything but that, It feels like they’re overcompensating and in very vindictive way.
Genn had a long story. And I have no real opinion about Gelbin as he barely gets any screentime. But other than that I have no issues with long-established characters. I guess you could say that we had no issues with male leaders because in reality majority of leaders in the world are males. So our very subconscious tells us that this is the norm/ the default., That is not to say that we cannot have female leads, ofc there should be there, but just saying that in DF they really went overboard with it.
Let’s take the example of Centaurs once more- wouldn’t it be better to have both good and bad male Khan and likewise both good and bad female Khan? Wouldn’t that be an actual egalitarian approach? Recognizing that both males and females can be good and evil?
Congrats, you just realize how female representation worked in WoW until now. That for a good chunk of Warcraft’s story male characters were usually leading everywhere and the few female characters were secondary at best, damsels in distress at worse.
Here is how I see it, moving forward we will have expansions that will have tilts of more female characters and some that will have more male characters. In the very very long term it will probably equal out. Regardless, I don’t see it as overcompensating and simply a correction.
Hence, why I am quite ok with our fantasy worlds showing us something different a hopefully inspiring enough for people take to heart.
They went “overboard” with it because we have always had males that kept “overboarding” the leadership role. And its not like we don’t have male leaders.
Scale commander Azurathel, Kalecgos, Nosdormu, Ebonhorn, Wrathion, Sabellion come to mind.
Was it though? Was it? I didn’t get that impression at all (that female characters were disposable). The only thing they lacked was a proper spotlight but then again major characters started to get bigger spotlight by the end of WotLK.
However female characters were there, some more important some less. But not even once I felt that they were trashed or treated unfavorably.
Males “overboarding it” was the standard in the franchise, game had very simple concept “Sweaty muscular green orc fighting of sweaty armored humans off and vice versa” it was the very foundation of the game, so it was to expect that they’d make majority.
Female leads are welcome but It’s one thing to add to it, and another to completely replace it. Hence why they went overboard, imo.
But WoW isn’t the first who did it and likely won’t be the last.
There are there, because they were previously established. And I don’t know who the first guy is from your list.