Removing the raid lockout system would be a mess
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But I have been told continually over the years that loot is irrelevant to M+, and players only play M+ for fun for the difficulty and challenge.
Are you saying that I was lied to all these years and that M+ was only popular due to being easy-mode free high ilvl loot?!?
Say it aint so!
The problem with this is that there is a wall you can hit.
My entire guild which was a 6/9M guild in AMTDH is capped and spent on Runed crests. Previously we would have been able to complete M+ that gives us Myth track gear which would slowly push our gear up. As of right now my vault has no chance to be better than my current gear at 615 ilvl.
The only thing is more crests, which, we can’t get. We can’t get gilded crests because we are having a hard time timing our 8s to even get to 9s. This means I might have to time, then fail, then time, then fail all to get a 9 key on completion for 5 crests. Yawn.
So vaults wont help me because I can’t even get 4 or 8 10 keys down. I can’t even get to or get 1 down. Capped on crests. Im sitting there staring at my 270 crest cap on gilded with a sad look on my face like “maybe someday” but my vaults are unlikely to help.
There’s different groups of M+ players. No one ever said that all players who participate in M+ do it for the challenge and not for the loot. This is an extremely disingenuous argument.
A large portion of M+ players do play for the challenge and is backed up by the number of players who consistently play after getting BiS/max ilvl in addition to the amount of players who push keys beyond the max gear rewards.
There are also a lot of players who just want easy loot and will stop where the rewards stop.
Who told you that? The most ran key was an 18 pre season 4 because that was where loot cut off
The literal hordes of people that would swoop down and reeee as soon as it was suggested that M+ was a little too rewarding for the difficulty and killing heroic level raiding and below. The forums were flooded with people screaming that M+ was popular because it was a fun challenge and nobody cared about the loot.
You are generalizing and hyperbolizing.
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Maybe you should check out this thread that’s been going for years now: Bring back 5mans
There is none.
These changes were made to make the healers happy because they kept complaining about not having to heal the tank.
If you look at the original tank nerf thread(That had like 3k replies) about 95% of the positive comments came from the non-tank players
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You basically have three ways to end an encounter.
You can increase damage rate beyond what can be offset by healing
You can Instantly kill people so that healing doesn’t matter
You can run the healer out of mana.
Since they decided, you know, they never want to do any sort of resource starvation, that basically leaves the other two.
“Nothing to fix” is an odd way to describe the former state of m+ when it was literally responsible for almost every single one of the games shortcomings. Nevermind that it completely invalidated every single other method of end game gearing; there was nothing to fix.
lol, ya no.
I know how to cheer everyone up.
Imagine Mike Tyson saying “Crystallized Bismuth.”
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They absolutely were self sufficient. Barely had to heal them in all of DF.
Now, while managing the overall group healing, we also get to play with the tank spikes. Which truthfully, I’ve enjoyed. If tank doesn’t have TD/whatever personal for a smash on a high key, he’s gonna get wrecked and probably die. This should be punishable.
It makes me a much better/faster/more effective player while weaving in every lick of dps possible.
I don’t need to “check it out” because I was a part of that thread and I remember it.
Maybe you should learn what generalizing means.
So the game was perfect before Legion? It’s not illogical to assume M+ was introduced in response to poor reception to the pure raid or die structure that was WoD.
I’m sorry, what? The special items out of raid are BIS for most specs most seasons. There has never been a legendary item drop out of M+, except for Legion where literally every enemy you killed had a chance to drop a legendary. Tier sets only drop from raid, giving raid a head start on tier bonuses (which also gives them a leg up getting into M+ runs). Azerite armor (at raid item levels) in BFA and Domination Shards in SL also only came from raid.
There are gearing problems from M+, without a doubt. It is far too lucrative relative to the effort. But it’s nothing but fantasy to suggest that M+ gearing made all other gearing sources irrelevant.
LOL flooding? They’re just not running keys that match their skill. They’re trying (and failing) to do higher keys or not getting invites.
Players aren’t looking to get into lower keys because they feel like they don’t need the drops. That makes the sub 7 range more sparse than it should be and makes it much harder for players to learn.
Yeah cause 3 expansions of keystone masteries is “barely” HAHAHAHA 
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Every expansion has people drop off as time goes on.
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They effectively striped out what used to be low keys from the system. Those keys were replaced by M0 being more difficult, and delves.
This is just standard stuff that happens literally every season. This is what the rating system is for. This is what achievements are for. This is why you are allowed to vet your groups to any degree that you see fit.
People see content that drops big loots. They try to join that content. It usually doesn’t go over well the first few attempts. Then they either get better or wash out. Then the world keeps spinning.
If someone apps to your 7 key with 250 rating and ilvl 605 is it hard for you to gather that they don’t have the experience to be in your key?
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