It's time to admit M+ and tank changes have made this season DOA

[Coler-elune]

@Rhorbault-bloodsail-buccaneers

2-9 allowed you to learn, make mistakes, and not completely fail. Now, a mistake is a fail most of the time.

This relies on the fallacy that you should somehow be timing keys while learning (failing mechanics). You can very much still spam 2s even if you don’t necessarily time them. You still get your loot at the end, still get your vault slot, and maybe learn something that can help you time it next time.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Lovelight-sargeras

@Rhorbault-bloodsail-buccaneers

Season 1 DF has 3.2m runs week 1
Season 2 DF had 2.9m week 1
season 3 DF had 2.2m week 1

So i mean…its continuing a downward trend?
and pretty abysmal compared to season 1 of the last expiation.

1. Every expansion has people drop off as time goes on.

Lovelight is 100% spot on. There is always attrition throughout a season and expansion. Regardless, we are still at 2.9 million runs on after 9 days. This is also with the new key system where M+2s are essentially previous M+10/12s. Imagine how many more runs there would be if it logged all the M0s that are basically the previous M+8/10.

[Kontiki-terenas]

@Akichan-hyjal

They don’t know what they’re doing, don’t know the route

i am an m+ tank. i haven’t really had a chance to learn routes/mob counts yet. admittedly i have been mostly delving and i spent a LOT of time smashing my face against zekvir ? and finally got him down.

i have only run one +2. I will start into my journey to 2k soon.

but I am curious if you try to help these no-nothing tanks?

some of them are really trying to learn. they run into a wall of mobs and a group of people whose attitudes range from helpful to toxic.

if they take verbal abuse from the pug, they probably stop being a tank, exacerbating the problem.

if they get assistance along the way, maybe they get a little bit better, learn to like tanking, and stick with it, reducing the shortage problem.

[Lucrend-stormrage]

@Xastii-stormrage

Delves have ruined low M+.

The key squish ruined low M+.

[Rhorbault-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Key squish was the coffin, Delves were the nails.

[Brocktree-wyrmrest-accord]

@Akichan-hyjal

There are no tanks. This has an added bonus of meaning that any tank spec that applies gets taken. They don’t know what they’re doing, don’t know the route, just obviously had enough and are taking the tank role so they don’t sit in que for years like the rest of us.

It’s almost like treating tanks like they have to know everything about everything and yelling at them when they don’t, makes us not want to tank!

I’ve been a tank for 15 years, and it’s not that I can’t tank, it’s that I’m tired of dealing with people getting mad at me for completely pointless reasons. Ya’ll expect us to know and do everything for you all, and then get mad at us for not doing it like you expect us to… it has nothing to do with the nerf, I think the nerf was needed. I think MORE nerfing on the damage front is needed.

I don’t think Blizzard ruined an aspect of it’s game, I think it’s community did that on it’s own. Most tanks are probably sticking to running things with their guild, or with people at least willing to be patient and let them learn without being berated.

[Navitas-malganis]

@Akichan-hyjal

There are no tanks. This has an added bonus of meaning that any tank spec that applies gets taken. They don’t know what they’re doing, don’t know the route, just obviously had enough and are taking the tank role so they don’t sit in que for years like the rest of us.

In one breathe the problem comes out. There are very few tanks but people get upset when someone new is trying to learn the role.

[Coler-elune]

One of the best abilities a tank can learn is thick skin. Tell the whiners to talk less DPS more.

[Broxxus-stormrage]

@Elk-thaurissan

Just jump into +7s with friends. Get them Hero gear from the rip after you gear up a bit from Delves.

Lol, the solution here is to make friends. Poggers​:sob:

[Coler-elune]

Really, this should be done by default in an MMO. When did people become so allergic to adding people they find tolerable to their friends list?

[Broxxus-stormrage]

Having friends shouldn’t be a prerequisite to content in this. The solution to an issue in this game should not be friendship.

[Coler-elune]

Nor should someone expect to compete on a level playing field with those cooperating on a team if they insist on being a loner.

[Ws-stormrage]

Yeah I really feel like M+ is not fun at all anymore. The dungeons are boring and lackluster plus way overtuned. The pugs are honestly terrible half the time and the que time to even get into peoples keys just for it to be probably bricked is just not worth the time you spend waiting and queing. And it just feels like you are not getting enough gear or crests for the amount of time and effort it takes to find groups and acually time keys. I’ve done m+ since BFA and this is the first time I’m thinking of finally putting it down.

[Broxxus-stormrage]

@Coler-elune

Nor should someone expect to compete on a level playing field with those cooperating on a team if they insist on being a loner

Mate, what are you on about? The OP shouldn’t expect to compete because they don’t want friendship? What am I reading right now? What planet are you even on?

[Briarkat-proudmoore]

@Kinemetra-barthilas

Better yet; revert the ridiculous refactoring of M+ from S4 so less capable players have more iterative gear collection, and leave pugging functional while people who want to play with friends remain entirely unaffected after they get their first key past +10 or whatever it was!

I entirely agree. At the very least realign the existing +2 to +10 difficulties. It was a mistake to take out the ten lowest difficulties and leave the difficulty steps on the remaining and just relabel them. It would of been a lot better had they left M0 where it was and just removed every other key level all the way to 20 and then squished them. Double the gap between difficulties but still cut the number of keys in half.

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

@Akichan-hyjal

There are no tanks. This has an added bonus of meaning that any tank spec that applies gets taken. They don’t know what they’re doing, don’t know the route, just obviously had enough and are taking the tank role so they don’t sit in que for years like the rest of us.

Here is the reality check tanks don’t want to tank becasue of

1. Toxic group
2. Having to memorise the routers like MDI remember router only really matter in 8+ and up in low m+ you don’t need to use MDI router and their werid skips but as tank I have memorize it. Why can’t the healer or dps do it?
3. I have to make MDI pulls or I get yell at. We aren’t in MDI we need to do their giant pulls
4. No one ever use their CC. So what you have is mob blasting into us tanks and when ask dps to use CC they simply refuse and said that’s the tanks job
5. one death or wipe they dps always blames the tank even though is their fault.

So tell me why does tanks wants to get abuse by dps players who knows nothing. We can get better or equal from delves thats on par up to 6 to 7+ is easy for us to just skip low level m+ in devles
1.No one blame us their mistakes since is solo content
2. WE can pull however we want without someone complaining
3. We control the flow of the devles
4. We do all the CC
5. Is more fun no one to complain and be toxic to us

Want more tanks, Be nicer to us, and learn the mechanics and don’t stand on fire, learn the routers, learn which mob needs to be CC and use your CC, use your personal Def, don’t be a jerk to us.

[Coler-elune]

@Broxxus-stormrage

Mate, what are you on about? The OP shouldn’t expect to compete because they don’t want friendship? What am I reading right now? What planet are you even on?

Are you too dense to realize that a bunch of solo randoms will never be able to compete with an organized group who regularly play together? It’s not some weird opinion, just objective fact. What do they teach you kids these days about team sports?

[Beki-dalaran]

@Sôsari-dalaran

@Beki-dalaran

Take your SL number for example, 20 million M+ runs per season on average. The current global WoW sub is around 5-7M accounts.

Where are you getting these numbers? Blizzard hasn’t released sub-numbers for years.

@Beki-dalaran

So each player does less than 4 M+ per season (6 months) on average, which is less than 1 per month. That is pretty dead content.

This is a prime textbook definition of circular reasoning. You fabricated a “fact” to base an interpretation of data on.

Here are the actual facts:

• Only Blizzard knows the real numbers behind the scenes.
• Blizzard, who we can all agree is money hungry, makes decisions based on what will make them the most money.

Why would Blizzard, for several expansions, continue to spend a large portion of their development time and effort into M+ if only a “small portion” of the population participate in it? All the objective facts discount your opnions that you are trying to pass off as “fact”.

A simple google is your friendly.

So you can’t accept the fact, even I debunked your argument with your own numbers.

[Bigtoe-whisperwind]

@Nastun-destromath

Give it a few more weeks before “it’s about time”.

Yesterday was the second vault week and people are just hitting the delve diminishing return point.

Not really I am just going to stop the grind at the devles max ilvl and call it a season. I don’t want to be abuse ever again in pugs in m+. Not to mention unless blizzard tune the dungeons this season is dead. Either you ahve dungeons that’s way over tune like Grim Batol OR HAVE annoying mechanics liek seige, Dawnbraker and just a few meh ok dungeons. The only ones I actually enjoy are MIST and Nerotic wake.

[Dracarian-medivh]

looks around at all the M+ threads and complaints

If you say so… and if M+ was designed with pugs in mind simply because you can solo queue for it. If it was fully intended for pre-mades, you’d get an error trying to queue. The sad thing is, most pugs are facerolls and a touch toxic making the entire experience some rough-a-roni pizza.