It's time to admit M+ and tank changes have made this season DOA

There were less than 10 groups for +4 for runed crest farming, just barely after primetime too.

There are no tanks. This has an added bonus of meaning that any tank spec that applies gets taken. They don’t know what they’re doing, don’t know the route, just obviously had enough and are taking the tank role so they don’t sit in que for years like the rest of us.

M+ is impossible to enjoy as a solo dps player, it was bad before, this is uninstall levels of que waits. i stopped after 40 declines as a 606 dps queing for 3-4’s.

We might have gotten delves for solo content, but this is insane bliz, you completely trashed a HUGE aspect of the game for no reason. There was NOTHING TO FIX, but ya just had to go and make it better, with once again, players feedback ignored.

I’m sorry, at this point if M+ is dead, you don’t have a game. One raid lockout per week isn’t enough. I’m not even gonna mention the tuning issues with M+, it’s a moot point, nobody running anything anyway.

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are we sure it’s not Delve loot that did that?

edit: one raid lockout is actually 4 lockouts. LFR, normal, heroic, Mythic.

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Huh? Sorry, I couldn’t hear anything you said.

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Just jump into +7s with friends. Get them Hero gear from the rip after you gear up a bit from Delves.

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Better yet; revert the ridiculous refactoring of M+ from S4 so less capable players have more iterative gear collection, and leave pugging functional while people who want to play with friends remain entirely unaffected after they get their first key past +10 or whatever it was!

Damn. I laughed at a snowpine joke. I feel dirty.

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I’ve been low key defending the tank changes but after playing with them this week

They suck, a lot, tanking is not fun at all right now

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I mean, I like tanking, but I’m playing a warrior so my HP doesn’t move much. That said; it feels to me like healers just don’t heal, and Im sure it’s not because they aren’t trying. Half the time they just fall over dead from the first unavoidable pulsing damage in the instance. My healers die more than kenny this season, and I just stand there bored killing the trash while random people run back from respawn.

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It’s time to admit that tanks are still too powerful, and need roughly a 50% damage reduction, and 20-30% effective total health reduction.

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As someone with 6 tanks, this makes me smile. I was so tired of the abuse over the years from healers and DPS in norms, heroics, and even at one time Ms, because I was not going fast enough for them, or going the right way. Pulling too much or too little. M0 btw, before anyone gets snippy about “time”. I’ve never been MORE happy than when Delves arrived so I could gear myself and only tank for my guild. I hope M+ continues to flounder. Maybe it will remind DPS and Healers to act more like humans, and less entitled in the future when dealing with the most important person in a 5M run :yellow_heart:

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Give it a few more weeks before “it’s about time”.

Yesterday was the second vault week and people are just hitting the delve diminishing return point.

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week 2 it’ll be alright as people get more gear

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It’s time to remember there is a reason WHY tanks are so powerful. Everyone has a role to play, and people need to respect one another when playing their role, and not barking orders or obscenities.

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Easy to say, but for solo players who have been doing it solo for years, fact is fact, Delves giving what is effectively 4/6 hero for absolutely no effort has killed keys and in a way normal raids also.

Sure players being mean to each other and treating tanks like garbage has not helped, but the gearing has certainly put the nail in the coffin.

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That’s interesting, from a warr PoV

On Blood i’m getting 100-0 in a global, my health is a constant pogo stick because of the blood shield nerf, and I have a hard time on pack entry because it feels like I need to chose aggro or death, sometimes both is hard.

The lack of my own personal healing is also very frustrating because healers don’t know how to heal blood, I found myself taking off meta spot healers because the healing profile works much better for me.

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Well for what it’s worth for the point, I was a tank in S4 (Blood DK) and loved the power level of having Fyra’lath + Augury + Inexorable Resonatorand it does concern me that until ~610 tanks were doing about the same damage as endgame while having less survivability. Where’s the value proposition for tanks here? You get less damage and less survivability but hey you can be more healer reliant???

It doesn’t compute to me but thats why I’m DPS’ing this season.

I mean they are being solo players in an MMO you’d think this would be perfect for them right?

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You really need a premade or a partial premade now for mythic+. I just hit 2k on my resto shammy today through pugging and honestly, even as a healer it wasn’t as fun as I would of liked.

There’s many reasons, tank nerf is one of them for sure- but the dungeons aren’t great for pugs (also LOL @ Dawnbreaker, it’s so buggy. The entire party died randomly after the key was timed/downed the last boss. I have no idea why that happened. Also two players said during the first fight the game randomly didn’t allow them to mount up, so they died.) Gearing system could use some work, and the key squish is honestly gatekeeping certain players which hurts participation.

All what I can conclude is blizz is really pushing delves. But honestly? They’re fun and less toxic. And I’m sure many tanks and healers alike are picking delves for their end game content for this reason. Can you blame us? :sweat_smile:

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Some people like running keys though, and some people find it beneficial to run lower keys for the experience it gives before jumping directly into M9 with no M+ rating and just going through it all again of never being invited.

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I’ve found it ok to do that myself. I was missing a Ara +6 and I think my score on Grim Batol is still abysmal. Turns out I do not infact know how to heal +4 Grim Batol when all the others are fine.

I pug too when my friends aren’t available. I’ve just made myself flexible cause of the shortage of non-dps roles.

Well, it’s a lot of things honestly.

Horrible balance.
Horrible tuning.
Absolutely tragic choice of dungeons.
(Why are all but 2 of the new dungeons this expansion just utterly garbage)? - Seriously why they’re all so bad.

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2.6 million runs, doing fine I think

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