It is time to give us hard dungeons that have nothing to do with time

[Ardus-thrall]

Veiled market is still a pain, even with high gear.

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

He actually got right up to the end, had an accident on the final phase (which everything I’ve read usually says that’s the easiest one) and decided he won the challenge in spirit and refused to queue up again, despite still being angry that he couldn’t unlock the appearance.

[Blackbison-lothar (Blackbison)]

@Sleepyash-sargeras

@Stunlocks-grobbulus

What the people want is hard, not fast.

no thanks

Giggity.

10char

[Murlocks-frostmane]

So 5 man raids?

[Rosenivy-area-52 (Rosenivy)]

@Stunlocks-grobbulus

We want to be able to pull no more than 3-4 mobs at a time or it will wipe the group. We want a slower pace dungeon system where things are just harder.

My brain is just playing one winged angel as memories of the final 3 wrath dungeons and the entirety of cata replay in my head

[Drunkpally-area-52]

No thank you, I would not like this

[Imperia-mannoroth]

No thanks.

They tried that at the beginning of Cata and it didn’t work at all.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

post on your main so we can see how many challenging dungeons you’ve done so far

[Seraphims-moon-guard]

@Dreadsurge-sargeras

@Stunlocks-grobbulus

What the people want is hard, not fast.

Go back to 2010 and tell me how that whole thing went.

Game had more people playing.

Woops.
M+ is trash.

[Dreadsurge-sargeras]

And? Basically every casual player badgered the living daylights out of Blizzard and specifically Ghostcrawler because they thought the dungeons were too hard, and in response Blizzard nerfed them all to the ground.

[Luup-skullcrusher]

Oh hun, I made this exact thread like, 3 months ago and the elitists who base their self-perception on video game numbers cried up a storm of tears.

A new, no timer, endurance based M+

For those that want to do challenging dungeon content, but dislike rushed timers and aoe strats. Give us a second font of power that converts our key into an endurance run There is no timer. Take as long as you like and strategize To compensate, everything hits really hard. You will need cc, you will need kill order. The only way to downgrade your key is not killing the last boss / finishing the run This mode should de-emphasize speed and place the focus on strategy and execution. C…

Literally the same idea. I feel you on a deep, spiritual level. I want heroic plus. I want surprise and danger and cc and loot from every boss.

And all I got was “ONLY TIMER MEAN SKILL”

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Karzabzak-thrall

Who is we? Because metrics do not support your request.

Metrics show that M+ participation is lower than BFA. Most of the players left and the ones that are here many of them don’t enjoy M+. It’s a toxic system.

[Atalanta-trollbane (Atalanta)]

@Karzabzak-thrall

You think you do but you don’t

They said that, too.

Sort of didn’t pan out, though, when Classic saw an incredible surge in quarterly earnings. Maybe designing content for 100% of people is pointless, and creating content for each type of people, is worth trying.

Legion had the best quality gear coming out of WQ’s we’ve seen, and the most accessible story and systems besides Legendaries, and did incredibly well and was widely beloved besides Legendaries. The artifact system was flawed to an extent but there’s no evidence that that one thing pushed people away (Legion had very high MAU).

I’d argue that, despite PvP being a sticking point, and the flaws that existed, it was the absolutely phenomenal power progression in the open world that made it so popular. Most people don’t raid (<5% historically did mythic/heroic all the way, and less than 20% did normal, and even then less than 50% did LFR).

Maybe, just maybe, there’s value in non-raid difficult content that isn’t timed, and then also in ignoring the 5% who demand that it cater to them, and just go back to solo content being a viable (but not Mythic quality) form of player power.

[Ajora-sargeras (Ajora)]

What you want already exists

1. find 4 other like minded people
2. acquire a high level key
3. insert said high level key
4. tape piece of paper over the timer on your screen
5. Proceed to kill literally as many mobs as you want in the dungeon, one group at a time, rolling full cc’s on as many mobs in each pack as you can.

[Regulator-skywall]

@Stunlocks-grobbulus

What the people want is hard, not fast.

I have to disagree with you, it seems like everyone is in such a hurry to finish anything. My last torghast pug nobody said a word and rushed right in, I wanted to type “Heya guys, wanna go for stars ? Skip mobs we can or full clear?” But if I stopped to type all that in they would all be on the next floor by the time I hit enter. And anima spells need to be picked fast in a torghast pug, just click something, no time to read it.

[Runebeard-nazjatar]

Hard dungeons can be done, but you would have to change the reward structure.

Dungeons are plentiful and easily farmable, therefor the rewards are generally weak.

Cata tried making dungeons hard, but it backfired because the players were already used to farming them quickly during Wrath. Blizzard went a step further and made them less rewarding.

So basically, in order to have hard dungeons again, you would have to make them NOT farmable, and potentially very rewarding. They would essentially have to be five-man raids.

[Wheelem-area-52]

Just let Blizzard spend the next decade coming to the understanding that they’re continuing to develop their subscription-based MMO almost specifically for an insignificant population of the game.

They’ll eventually figure it out when the subs drop below 500k in North America.

[Blackstannis-khazgoroth (Blackstannis)]

Isnt this exactly what Tazavesh, the Veiled Market is?

I have only done the first 5 or so bosses but they really were fantastically designed… especially the one with the moving portals, that is probably my favourite dungeon fight in wow.

If I played the game more/had an active guild I would be all over that dungeon.

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Atalanta-trollbane

I’d argue that, despite PvP being a sticking point, and the flaws that existed, it was the absolutely phenomenal power progression in the open world

Yea it’s a shame they had Templates in PvP ruining that expansion for me so I unsubbed. The WPvP was phenomenal just couldn’t validate a sub on only that. Once I got a PvP trinket and couldn’t use it in PvP I was like what is this madness. So only played it for 2 months. Most expansions get 2-3 month of sub out of me a year.

[Satuza-bleeding-hollow]

If you want hard dungis push past a +15