Is-the-20-man-hard-limit-for-mythic-raiding-too-restrictive

How? class diversity is higher with more people. And they had great tuning on most mythic raids.

The problem is they can’t just tune numbers, you have to nerf the amount of mechanics or make 20man boring.

You can raid LFR, normal and Heroic. There’s many requirement higher than just needing 20man like raiding on schedule. I can easily get 40man for a world boss for example.

Have they ever gotten it right?

I mean, heck, the foundation of Mythic Raiding in this game relies on Blizzard pandering to both the top 0.02% and also the top 2% (two orders of magnitude difference) with the same difficulty setting. This gap is literally a whole order of magnitude more vast than the gap between Heroic raiding and Mythic Raiding. If you take all of the nerfs to the content after it is first cleared and compare it to afterward, this gap is massive.

So I don’t buy for a split second that let’s say a 2% tuning difference in 18-person vs 22-person in meeting a DPS check is going to blow up Mythic entirely. Mythic Raiding goes under such radical nerfs that this kind of difference is a drop in the bucket.

many many times there’s exceptions like Crucible of storm and Sepulcher basicly.

Nerfing a content is not bad tuning, the amount of nerfs and the number of times you do them is relevant.

No. You can keep the mechanics the same as long as the flex option isn’t extreme. Dropping to 18 or up to 22 would work. We see this all the time in Heroic Raids.

There were still 4 adds to Heal and 4 adds to kill on Anduin no matter the Raid size. What makes it possible is the health of those mobs scale with Raid size. It’s a PITA if you have to solo heal downstairs or don’t have enough CC but it can be done.

Personally i really like 23

Mythic raiding should be static 23

4 Likes

We see many times in Heroic raids that some comps are prefered yes. 1 or 2 players don’t change much but it can and more will. And heroic isn’t as min/maxed as mythic.

But you want 2 dks for anduin, a smaller raid size makes it harder same as CCing the adds in mythics. So they’d have to nerf that.

This is such an interesting concept. I’ve made a CC post to discuss it!

The possibility of scaling raids - Community / WoW Community Council - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)

1 Like

Heroic flexs from 10-30. And also, truth be told, Blizzard barely puts any effort into tuning Heroic which is very, very bizarre given it is the most popular raid difficulty.

Yea you can frame that. I seriously don’t know how anything even gets in-game.

Very, very slowly, if Shadowlands content patches are any indication.

I dont really care how they do it. I want a raiding 10m mythic alternative. Be it an additional raid tailored for 10m or 10m and 20m or just flat out remove 20m and move on to 10m.

Ion said in an interview that mega dungeons are meant to replace the 10m raids like Zul’Aman. Imo they failed big time in that regard. M+ design is too garbage for many people so this isn’t a good alternative for raiding. Thus there needs to be a different option.

1 Like

Yea I mean if those dungeons were atleast 10man, but they aren’t even that.
Personnaly I’d like a 20m-10m-20m-10m-20m-10m expansion
6 raids, 3x20 and 3x10, just release 10man raids at .5 patchs basicly.
But they can’t manage to do any content, even dragonflights will re-use mop dungeons for the first season in m+ :confused:

Out of all of the arguments about the 20 player requirement yours makes the most sense for a possible change, and no so much the margin of error argument as the benching someone who isn’t meeting performance requirements argument.

Ion is talking out of his :peach:. 10-man raids and Mega-Dungeons are completely different in feel.

Is Blizzard actually going to argue BRD and Karazhan scratch the same itch? It’s actually a total meme. I guess he has to say something but… lol.

1 Like

To be fair, TBC Karazhan might be close to a mega dungeon, but Zulaman definitly had this 10man raid feeling that Wotlk copied after.

What? Do you mean to suggest that Tazavesh and ZG do not in fact hit the same?

2 Likes

I just mean in the sense of actually progging a raid. I think the only bosses I’ve “progged” in any of the mega-dungeons would be the Nightbane fight in Karazhan and the bugged version of the Mail boss prior to acknowledging the existence of the burn strat.

If you aren’t expected to wipe on a boss a number of times killing it, you can’t justify calling it a raid. Therefore, I reject this nonsense Blizzard is peddling with mega-dungeons being “like raids” because for the most part you really aren’t expected to wipe.

And you can say “well by that argument UBRS isn’t a raid” and I would say… yeah. UBRS is more like a 10-person dungeon.

In all seriousness I think the real question is how do you handle gear out of 10 mans in today’s M+ and multiple raid difficulty world world? The smaller raids like ZG, AQ10, and Kara were designed to be sort of easier raids that dropped better than dungeon gear but not as good as raid gear. This model doesn’t really work when dungeons aren’t limited to heroic/their base version anymore.

Yea I agree on everything, I just didn’t prog much in Karazhan (because it was too easy) that’s the thing and I think the trash is closer to a dungeon, which to be fair a lot of raids in TBC had way too much trash.

I mean we have tons of ways to scale gear differently but if they compete it would be harder to tune well. If you release one after the other you can just scale the ilvl higher of the new raid.