The possibility of scaling raids

I’ve been following a GD post relating to the 20-man mythic cap post we have here on the CC, and one person, Zootzoot, has shared a VERY interesting idea I would like to flush out a bit more.

Lets say LFR equates to a M+0. Normal equates to a +5, heroic to +10, and mythic to +15.
I think 15 should be the cap, but maybe there is room for harder mythic that is unlocked once the group has full cleared the +15 content?

When you enter the raid, the raid leader can choose the level they want to scale the raid to. At +5, +10, and +15 new mechanics are unlocked. (The Normal / Heroic / Mythic mechanics) and a +13, for example would have heroic mechanics, but higher numbers than the +10, and rewarding better loot (Which can utilize a similar scaling system to current M+)

One caveat to this though, it should not be a linear scaling. There should be a jump between +9 & +10 that is bigger than the jump from +10 to +11. The new mechanics should equate to more difficulty and therefore better loot than one additional level.

As well, there should not be 15 lockouts. The same 4 should exist. One for +0 to +4, +5 to +9, +10 to +14, and +15. You get locked to a boss when you kill it within that range. (Would still allow for pug groups to run at different levels as you are not locked to a certain level)

I think this system does a couple of things. First, it gives groups that stop after a certain (non-mythic) difficulty room to get more upgrades from raid (albeit small ones), and it builds on an existing system with M+, which in my experience the way the health/damage scales in M+ is not the issue people have with M+.

And secondly, its another layer of challenge that would increase the viability of reclearing.

Would love to hear everyones thoughts on this idea, and another shoutout to Zootzoot on GD for bringing it up!

EDIT: To be clear, this post is about difficulty scaling, not group size scaling.


An infinite loop of scaling which M+ effectively is would be quite annoying for alot of guilds. Whilst some bosses would be easier you might wanna go and push it as high as possible whilst other bosses you’ll just leave at a lower tuning since it’s not worth the time and difficulty. For example you might wanna go do Lords of Dread +50 but The Jailer +15. This would also create alot of issues with loot acqusition and lockouts. I think this type of scaling can create alot of guild drama overall and serves no real purpose as the prenerfed versions of bosses is already MILES too hard for the average guild.

My take is that how it currently works is plenty enough. If anything leave a unnerfed version of the raid for people to do if they want to do that. This will be doing like a +30 M+ key for alot of people. E.g prenerf Anduin this tier, have fun!

This is why I suggested a cap. Because an infinite system would also raise the question of “what counts for RWF & HoF”

I’m not suggesting it be an infinitely scaling system like M+, just that a bit of scaling could be interesting

Is this just renaming the difficulties? I’ve reread both the Gd thread and this and it seems like an idea to solve a problem that really doesn’t exist. The discussion should imo lean towards a way for Mythic accessibility from a logistics standpoint. Right now the outside raid work required to maintain a mythic raiding roster is above and beyond anything else and there’s no support from blizzard to make that easier (A topic for another day).

Sure I can do a +14 for say 272 ilvl but that doesn’t make raiding more accessible or help in any way. Just means people will do +9 and +14 so why not just make the ilvl closer(Granted Blizzard had said they want upgrades to feel cool)? I think finding a way to increase the accessibility of Mythic through raid size would be better. Think about how many friend guilds think it’s awesome to come together to make a raid team on a new expansion and get into mythic only to die cause maintaining a roster for mythic in a casual environment is extremely volatile. Allowing more flexibility after say HoF closes could alleviate pressure for those guilds.

I think it makes reclearing more valuable. I agree the raid size of mythic could be looked at, as a GM/Raid Lead/ Recruiter, I feel all the pain of maintaining a mythic roster.

This seems like an interesting possibility that would be better suited as an addition rather than total replacement. I could see old raids coming back using this sort of scaling, for instance! Challenge PVE content that isn’t necessarily pushing current level.

People raid limited amount of time per raid which would mean you’d need to put actual rewards worth people’s time to go here. People don’t want to reclear multiple raids each week which this could cause.

And if it’s not worth to clear the old raids with this scaling system no one would do it almost which makes development time for this wasted.

Let’s say we put all Shadowlands up right now with this iLvl scaling system you’d have three different raids to clear each week. No one wants this - so don’t walk down this road.

All due respect but I think you’re misunderstanding me.

The number of lockouts isn’t changing. There is still an “LFR”, “normal”, “heroic”, and “mythic” lockout. They can just scale a little bit for a bigger challenge and better rewards.

I’m also no suggesting it scale when a new raid releases. There won’t be any clearing 3 raids for current level gear, that’s not what I’m talking about.