BC Kara had a few real bosses.
Anyways, I don’t think I want to go down the nostalgia rabbit hole because it is just going to make me salty we don’t have 10-man Mythic raids in Retail.
10-mans drop less loot, 20-mans drop more loot. Actually more loot, not scaled up quantities of loot. If a 10-man boss drops 2 pieces of loot, maybe a 20-man boss drop 5.
Fights that have a designated number of players get a debuff (on mythic) or have to soak something to my knowledge:
Skolex
Halondrus
Pantheon
Lihuvim
Lords of Dread
Rygelon
Jailer
Most of those fights have a subset of people either soak something, or get a debuff. That number would have to flex with total people in the raid (4 or 5 debuffs or whatever) because if it doesn’t, you’d always just bring the max number to make it easier. If the mechanic does change, then usually groups will just take as many people as they can underneath the breakpoint (say at 23 people you get 5 instead of 4 debuffs) so you might as we just make the raid a static number or else every fight will have different breakpoints for raid comps (and thus you’re changing your raid size every fight) or you just heavily restrict encounter dragon, which is what they want to avoid.
None of those fights have a mechanic where the mechanic only works with exactly 20 people. None of those fights have a mechanic like Sylvanas where the mechanic is impossible or trivial with more or less. What you’re describing is just mechanics. You do the mechanic and then the mechanic is done. That’s true with 18 people or 22. Nothing changes, you handle them exactly the same.
I mean that’s being picky for me. yea they fit room or space for 20 people if they make a 20 people fight and other mechanics might not feel as they require people… But it’s a bit trying to dodge the main issue that the guy is pointing and that I tried to, you can’t balance mechanics easily, it’s not just number nerfs.
Halondrus bombs were tightly tuned when most of the raid had to participate in that mechanic. After they nerfed it, that was no longer true. The same for most mechanics. This idea that the mechanics only work with a certain number of people just isn’t true after they make the first big set of nerfs. The world first version is tightly tuned but beyond that, no.
No I’m talking about abilities that don’t hit everyone. Mythic Halondrus has 6 bombs for 20 people. If it flexed up to 25 people without adding bombs, then you’d be stupid not to bring 25 because that’s more dps that don’t have to worry about bombs and can just tunnel boss. If the bombs do scale (let’s say there’s a 7th bomb at 23 people) then no raid group would use less or more than 22 for that particular boss. Now apply this to the others and you essentially have to have different raid sizes for every boss.
Taking the nerfs of Sepulcher as an example is asinine.
It’s not about mechanics “working the same way” but being tuned to be as hard on different amount of players at the same level of difficulty. Because that’s the point of hard content, to be well tuned.
I agree with this exactly!
Agreed.
IMO I’d like 10-man dungeons m+ style.
5mans should be 20-30 mins long. 10man dungeons should be 60minutes. Have 10 mans have infinite scaling like M+ but remove the timer. Same item level as m+ 5 mans.
So if a 10 man raid drops the same gear as M+ but takes twice as long to get through why are people running the 10 man other than 1 time for an achievement?
maybe there’s a mount.
The scaling of encounters is already designed to take this in mind. Have you seen how bosses scale? It isn’t linear. If you’re adding people who aren’t doing mechanics the dps scales according to their up-time. Also, Blizzard already sweet spots heroic tuning to make 20 optimal - bigger or smalle raid sizes can be done but the easiest comp is always 20 with the last several raid tiers.
Most bosses are really, really not right on dps. Typically you can kill almost the entire raid while carrying 1, maybe 2 grey parsers. Heck, if it weren’t possible selling CE would be impossible.
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If the price for not benching a friend in mythic raids is your raid trying to push out an extra 0.1% by bringing 18 raiders on a fight and then 19 on the next that’s fine with me. We understand the price we’re just willing for it to happen.
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I would call them 10 man dungeons not raids.
And same ilvl gear.
Ok, doesn’t actually answer the question though. Unless you are planning on putting some OP trinket in there why are people running something that takes twice as long but just as rewarding?
You clearly don’t do mythic progress (or get very far) if you don’t think guilds won’t just say “Ok we only do this boss with 22 people, this boss with 25, but this boss with 15”. 20 people for mythic is fine and has always been fine. Just remove the server-locks and make the lockouts work like heroic instead of making it flex.
Not all guilds manage to sell CEs, a really small amount of anything do so.
But even then, dps shouldn’t be everything. The raid should still be clearable by people not doing top tier dps as raids aren’t made to be dps simulators, that’s not the point of them even on hard. And lot of fights make it impossible for everyone to parse, parsing is not everything.
You’re diverging from the main point a lot and trying to bash on raiding as a whole. Raiding is hard, sure wow isn’t the hardest game but not everyone can clear mythic and really not the majority of players or even a third of it.
But I get it, in M+ dps is everything as trash is the main difficulty of dungeons because of the timer. 
Because why not?
If I had 8 guildies online who were down to dungeons I’d get 2 pugs and go to a 10 man dungeon.
If I need an upgrade from a 10 man dungeons I’d go there.
If I enjoyed the 10 man dungeon this patch more that De Other Side I’d hit it up.
Actually, both are true. It would be very difficult to keep mythic raiding difficulty equivalent in a flex situation. But it would be even harder to do it while phoning it in. The current mythic raid difficulty management system seems to be closer to phoning it in than anything previous.
I have more CE achievements than you do friend.
Some will yes. Other will not. The guilds that will are fine with a bench and will benefit when someone can’t make raid. The guilds who would rather push through with their guildies will benefit as well.