You can tune it all you want, but what’s the goal??
If the goal is 100 pulls and the AVERAGE guild is 200 pulls into it… you overtuned it. Period. Doesn’t matter if you spent 9 months trying to get it perfect. It’s overtuned.
If the goal is 100 pulls and the AVERAGE guild got it in 92 kills… you tuned it right! Even if you spent 20 minutes on it… it’s PERFECT!
I don’t think “tuning” is enough of a metric to say it’s done right. There’s some other factor missing. I’m using pull-count, but maybe that’s not right either. Just all I could think of on the spur.
I mean personnaly my goal would be that a 2 day guild can clear in 4 months. So about 800 wipes raids (all difficulties together), just remove some bosses so you can still have hard bosses. But yea we don’t know, and I don’t think they’ll say it.
They need to bring back 10m mythic raiding (aka 10m heroic in MOP). When they changed in back in WoD it killed of tons of guilds that enjoyed the more family/friend centered raid environment and progress. Many of these players just left as they had no interest in 20m mythic and had no other high level PvE content to compete in. One of the biggest mistakes blizzard has done in its inception to WoW. Much larger than Titanforging, MoP talents and other potential stuff.
While M+ does give some kind of high PvE content for smaller groups, it is still far too different from raiding to be attractive for many of these players. I personally can’t stand too much M+ because of the timer system. But 20m Mythic raiding is no option for me.
Implement a 10m mythic version. It shouldn’t be too difficult to tune as it is exactly 50% of a 20m raid. Sure you still have 2 tanks but thats mostly it. From there on you can tune which shouldn’t be too difficult since they even said they have new technology to tune all difficulties at once.
Allow cross-realm mythic raiding from day 1 so mythic groups can actually form without being restricted to your server. This will allow a lot more players to try mythic raiding.
Remove the mythic ID lockout and put in the NM/HC lockout method.
Another part of transparency is you need to grow the beachballs to be able to tell the 6 day-a-week raiders who clear in 3 weeks, who are then whining “there’s nothing to doooooooooo” … you need to be able to straight up tell them: “that’s your own fault. Go outside.”
Does it feel like Mythic raids are so hard, because the people that do them tend to play more? It’s built around providing content to the try-hard, 4 day-a-week’ers?
For awhile Blizz has been tuning damage values and enrage timers around the crazy raid 20 hours a week people in mythic at the start of a patch. This raid it seems like they designed the mechanics around it to. There are a ton of bosses where 1 person making 1 mistake means you may as well wipe it. I think they should just let RWF be as long as it is while designing mythic for who they want to be able to clear mythic. Who cares if it takes guilds who play as much in 1 day as some in 3 weeks are able to clear the raid in 3 days. It is the best players in the world playing more than anyone else can. Right now they are designing the raid around what those guys do and trying to backtrack into something they think is appropriate for mythic.
Agreed. Making the same raid in both 10 man and 20-man won’t work.
Personally though, I would love to see Blizzard return to the BC paradigm. I’d love to see 10-man raids exist in the game that are not the same raids as 20-man. How cool would it be if Blizzard released some dope new 6-boss 10-man mini-raid with a new Bear-mount like challenge?
I feel like the biggest problem with modern Blizzard is that they just don’t make enough stuff, so its always a scramble to try to fulfill players. Back in BC we weren’t asking for more stuff constantly because we were pretty well-fed. Nowadays it seems like the player-base is perpetually on the edge of starvation.
Unfortunately blizzard seems to have more or less forgotten that sort of not a proper raid tier but still not free content piece of the puzzle. Maybe not enough people were completing that stuff? Maybe blizz just forgot it was an option. I’d say maybe they think mythic+ fills this role so they don’t really worry about it anymore but tis was an issue before legion. I love the odd small raid that actually has some decent catchup maybe even side-BIS gear and the occasional 1 boss mini raid.
He’s right about the impact on guilds. My raid usually has 14 players. We’re close to AotC and have been talking about running with a Horde sister guild to fill the roster for mythic. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure we’d end up with more than 20 people wanting to mythic raid. That means we’d have exactly the same issues as Wumba mentions, people who are benched leaving and there is always a lot of attrition over the summer.
I’m not sure having four tiers of raiding is even good for the game. Blizzard has lowered the quality of normal and heroic loot to accommodate mythic, and the poor loot means nobody wants to farm. If you miss a prog night on a skippable boss, you may not get a kill at all. I went AotC with 10/11 bosses last season because I missed the one Fatescribe kill. After that we just skipped to KT.
What is the point of a raid tier that gets nerfed to the ground after Liquid, Echo, Method, and a handful of other guilds run a race so grueling they burn out in the process? Blizzard is basically making a raid tier for about 200 players and that makes no sense. What if there was only LFR, flex normal and flex heroic, with heroic a bit harder and tuned more carefully for flex breakpoints?
I mean with all of the different difficulty levels we have, I don’t see why you couldn’t reasonably PUG a 10-man raid on a lower difficulty like you would PUG UBRS.
What if there were no difficulty Tiers and Blizz just took a page from M+ and let Raids scale? We’re getting Raid versions of Affixes in Season 4 so maybe it’s on their radar.
I’d say smaller Raids (5 or less Bosses) that scale like M+ with scaling rewards. Lose all difficulties for Raiding and 5 mans other than keeping LFD/LFR since there’s a market for queued content.
Do they actually enjoy static 20 man content or do they enjoy doing the hardest content with the best potential rewards and doing 20 man Mythic is the only option?
People enjoy reward as way to progress their characters and the content that comes with it. Yes some players are more salty about it, but nobody is twisting their hand to play the game. And the same could be said about any content, you’ll see that tons of people in a game like wow do care about loot and the subject always get heated.