Wtf is that logic. It’s like you wanted to gotcha me but don’t understand what I said, you just went with it anyway.
Players can care about both. BOTH. It’s not just one type of players or black and white.
Everything is about cost and benefit. There is some benefit to the strict size certainly for the raid team in tuning encounters. It’s not that it doesn’t exist. It’s that the benefit was minor, and the cost was extreme.
A 20-man team size is a big, big size for a consistent team. I can’t think of any other major game that both increases the difficulty while increasing the number of people needed to engage the difficulty (at least at high numbers like that). It was an especially bizarre route to go for an MMO that was already a decade old.
I have yet to see how a static number is any worse than each fight having a different required number of people (because there is no way they could balance flex around breakpoints). You’d have mythic fights requiring 21 people here, 24 there, but 18 here, because of mechanical breakpoints.
I thought I was pretty clear. You said there are players that like the 20 man format and I think if you dive into it they like the difficulty and rewards and that raid size is their only option.
They don’t “love” the Raid size. They love what it gets them. If Blizz made Mythic a static 15 man size those same players would love that.
Who are you to say that, really
Just go play diablo immortal and go swipe your credit card for loot since you think that’s only what count and what people want.
Wrong. The 25 player crowd cried because they said 25 is so much harder than 10 which was only true for recruiting and logistics. There are many boss examples in MoP where a specific boss is harder or even significantly harder depending on raid size switching between 10 and 25 man.
Now we have the same crowd crying that M+ gets more or less the same rewards as mythic raiders. Its simply not an argument. And I tend to say that accessability for harder content should be priority number 1 and not the entitlement to gear which is obsolete after a few months anyways. Especially now with M+ being a thing.
I thought so too. There’s nothing special about the number 20.
This is such a red herring. If the RWF guys don’t want to set rules for themselves and they swap between 25 and 11 man groups for any and all reasons, I think it’s a non issue. Let them. It doesn’t affect anyone else.
The fixed 20 man requirement is the hardest boss in the game. This change would dramatically increase raid participation. And the risk is the RWF dudes might not set a rule for themselves AND they might do something janky?
Let ‘em. This is long overdue.
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Would they?
So I did pulls on 8 of the bosses in M CN, and 9 of the bosses in M SoD, and I can’t think of a single fight where slightly more or slightly less people would have any real impact on things.
From what I’ve seen, something like M Sylvanas P3 where everyone has to stand in very specific spots would be influenced by flex in Mythic, but honestly Blizzard could just as well not design that mechanic and I don’t think anything of value would be lost. I don’t think that in the grand scheme of things, assigning spots for single person to stand in that fashion really adds that much to the engagement of the encounter, it’s really kind of a dumb mechanic that I don’t think anyone would be upset about losing out on if Mythic has slight flex.
It was a number established because 25m was seen too high with the removal of 10m. I would still prefer 25m but 20man is a compromise and still offer enough diversity for the amount of classes and specs that we got in wow that a lower number doesn’t offer. It’s also a good number if you enjoy really massive multiplayer content which I do. And management isn’t as bad as 40man which was a bit insane.
Those still happened in 10 man btw. It’s just a type of mechanic. You could do it without assignements, guilds just do it because it’s faster and easier that way.
You don’t think that most guilds will take the past of least resistance, at least for prog kills? Blizz is terrible at scaling the same boss for different numbers of people. The “serious” difficulty needs to either be a limited range similiar to what sent said or a set number. Doesn’t have to be 20, though with the way WoW’s classes are designed 10 is to little. 16 or so could probably work.
My point is that if you say “oh, there’s exactly enough space on this platform for 20 people if you space out in this way, and you can’t do the mechanic with more than 20 people”, my point is… why does this mechanic need to exist? Do we really get a huge return on putting a mechanic like that in? That’s pretty much one of the only mechanics I can think of where exactly 20 people is a requirement. Too few people and the mechanic becomes too easy and too many and it becomes impossible… but what does that mechanic add? Nothing that matters if it is gone.
They might. But I don’t see that as a problem. Between the two “we can’t raid tonight because it’s Jim’s anniversary and our MT and best healer are out” is way worse than “let’s sit 3 people so we only get 2 ________.”
Any difference in difficulty from any source is enough to make 2 different Raid sizes a bad idea. On top of the fact that static Raid sizes are too constricting in general.
That’s the whole point of a static number, to allow blizzard to not have as many restrictions on what mechanics they make. You’d have to remove any mechanic that stipulated “X number of people” and either make everyone get it or no one. That’s a pretty big restriction.
Yea it’s fun. I mean you rarely have mechanics for 20 people at once, it’s more a matter that more people makes it so you have to deal with them differently and give you more versatility to deal with them if you have to assign people certain jobs that certain specs or class makes more easy. And well that for some people just more people makes the content more fun, not everything has to be downsized so it becomes a destiny game.
Is it a big restriction? Literally 1 boss this entire expansion has a mechanic like that. Even the other “everyone gets this mechanic” stuff in Mythic like the AE Defile from Jailer would not be handled fundamentally different with 18 or 22 people.
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Yea but getting 3 runes vs 2 in the jailer fight for example is a massive difference.
It’s not specifically mythic raid, it’s that having four raid tiers means there is too broad of an iLvl spread between normal and mythic. LFR serves a separate purpose of having a casual, queueable raid. However, normal loot is usually garbage a few weeks into a patch so what is the point of the normal tier?
Scaling has the potential to be interesting, although there would be breakpoints where certain mechanics would appear. Raids would probably end up optimizing, like running +6 or +10 keys to avoid the +7 affix without the +10 boost. Many raid bosses are essentially timed anyway with soft or hard enrages.
What I would not enjoy is M+ style affixes. I’m waiting to see how Encrypted plays out but I have zero interest in 3-4 hours of dodging quaking or explosive. 40 minutes is tedious enough. I’d flat-out quit the game if grievous appears in raids.
Why would that change with 18 people vs 22 people?
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