Bellular reports the facts. Sometimes he presents them in a way that misleads folks (lies, damned lies, and statistics) but the facts are definitely there.
People made excuses for the raid in 9.1, and are making excuses for the raid in 9.2. I wonder what excuses we’ll see for the raids in 10.1?
Honestly, I’ve been there. Had a trash night and I would bench myself in those cases. Flexing the raid would make this easier to do so. Even sitting out and watching one of your guildies stream in discord for a couple of pulls to let you collect yourself and get back in the game is a smart choice.
To be clear just adding to what you said.
I’d be fine if they loosened the realm-locked and single-lockout systems on mythic before changing the number of people. Make it easier to assemble the group before affecting the raid’s difficulty.
That would help pugging but not guilds.
Got a new trial? Run with 21. Does someone have to miss a night? No problem run with 19.
I don’t think that’s a concern for Blizzard at all and has nothing to do with their rationale behind the static size of Mythic Raids. On the other hand their BS about tuning and class/spec representation as an excuse doesn’t hold water either just based on what we’ve seen since Mythic was added.
I think Raiding needs a complete overhaul. I’d prefer they dump all the static difficulties and take a page from the success of M+ design. Scaling content with scaling rewards coupled with flexible Raid sizes seems more in line with what the current player base wants.
Bellular is one of the most clickbaity and doomsayer youtuber. And I do watch him still because the content is entertaining. So I know what I’m talking about.
20man raids are not a problem, and metrics are catching up with the nerfs. Nothing to see here. That’s not an argument to say that 9.2 is just making excuses, that’s just uneducated and ignorant.
The “ruin for Developer’s” answer: YES! But it’s different for every player.
Not even just every raid. But every PLAYER!
People want to feel a sense of progression. For me, that’s going from 98% on pull #1, to 80%, to 60%, to 30%, to 10%, to dead! Good times!!
We had that on some pulls recently and people were LOSING THEIR MINDS because we didn’t get it in 2-3 pulls.
How do you balance around THAT???! lol
And just look at all the people that whine to high heaven about all the recent SFO nerfs. How is the answer not: “if you were better, you would have cleared this already”?
And the obvious rebuttal is that the nerfs should be gradual, like 20-60-80 instead of just a straight 90% nerf like we saw recently. But … in short, I think there IS a sweet spot. But 1> it’s impossible to pick, 2> They need MUCH more transparency about WHO they are designing for.
I mean even for the race the tuning was all around. I think it’s just a terrible tuning same as Crucible of storms. stuff like that happens with Blizzard, like how M+ was overtuned in season 1 of SL. They just need to get better.
You’re not getting it. Attacking Bellular doesn’t work when he is sourcing facts. Ad hominem is completely defanged when you’re essentially attacking a decoy, as he is not the source of those facts and therefore discrediting him does nothing to discredit his argument as his argument is sourced by external facts.
The point is that we’ve seen two tiers in a row that failed, and the exact opposite reasoning was used to justify why they failed (people don’t like raids that are too easy - people don’t like raids that are too hard). Maybe there’s a goldilocks zone but we’ve yet to see it.
It is a solid argument. When we see said goldilocks raid, we have no reason to believe such a thing exists.
9.1 was an expansion general failure. not a raid failure. raid tuning for 9.1 was fine. And only the top said the raid was too easy, and I can care less about that. Tons of of people enjoy raids that are at that level of difficulty and it wasn’t emerald nightmare which is the only raid that was too easy that they’ve released.
The way he presented facts was bias and even him agreed that you can’t really compare 9.2 raid to other raids with the way it was tuned and the way loot works.
This. So much this.
“better”, but do you see my point about transparency?
Like if their GOAL with Mythic Raiding is that “X boss” should take 100 pulls, the AVERAGE Mythic raid takes 77 pulls and is FREAKING OUT … then Blizzard can say: we told you going in to this, it should take 100 pulls. gitgud.
And conversely, if the AVERAGE guild is taking 120 pulls… they NEED TO ADMIT they got it wrong and not just “tweak it in the next balance pass” but HOTFIX IT!!! Act like you CARE about this game!!!
That is what I mean by transparency. Cause we certainly don’t have that now.
You do realize they did this and this is the reason why they got rid of it right? MoP: SoO for example. 10 man was insanely harder than 25 man yet the loot was the exact same. They tried everything they could to tune it so both felt he same but couldn’t even come close. I did both also 10 and 25. 10 hands down was insane. You could cheese so many bosses with 25 man it wasn’t even funny. Let’s take Garrosh for example. 25m you could all just sit grouped up the entire first phase. 10m you could not and had to deal with more mechanics due to this. Also, on the one intermission where you need to silence those casters, 10m you were limited and if 1 person missed a silence it was a wipe. 25m had more than enough people to silence.
Blizzard flat out said that is why they are removing 10/25 and going with 20 only for mythic because they couldn’t figure out a way to tune the 2 equally. I mean they could maybe go back to Wrath where 10/25 were both tuned differently having 25m as the “harder one” where the “ilvl” was higher than the 10m one because 10m was easier.
So I don’t see how they can do a flex mythic if they can’t tune it mythic for 25/10. Not only that it could either end the “Race to World First” or those guilds will set the precedence on the ideal # of players which other guilds will take it as law and make sure their roster only has that many too imo.
Don’t get me wrong, I get people want to do mythic and it is hard to get a full 20 if you aren’t a mythic raiding guild and especially if you do normal and heroic, people will get burnt out and not want to do mythic and wait till next tier but if they can’t tune it correctly then I am glad they don’t have it vs just throwing it in and making it ridiculous like how MoP was when it came to 10/25 raids and how lopsided it was.
Which is also why personnaly I would alternate between 10 and 20 man so they don’t compete with each others. But it is still better to have 10m as an option than none at all.
Big, BIG diff between tuning for 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22 compared to tuning for 10 and tuning for 25.
18 and 22 are basically the same. 10 and 25 are vastly different in what you can expect a raid comp to be able to handle.
Yes definitly Blizzard could use some standards, but getting real answers from Ion is harder than killing KJ mythic pre-nerf.
Yep, but my bigger point is to say we all sit here and argue with each other about the FINER points, when the reality is that until we get that LARGER point of Blizzard being transparent, nothing else matters.
We’re wasting our breath. ;(
Flexing from 20-25 Would be much easier than balancing 10 + 25.
I mean if the tuning is a mess it would still be a mess with flex and we want better tuning as a priority I think right?
If
went bye-bye, would the 20-man fixed size be a problem anymore?
The more I think about it, the more I feel like this is just an issue because of the lack of x-realm, the shared lockout, or both.