Make it more dragoon like : )
Nah, it was more fun like this:
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Go necrolord and enjoy explosive shots : ). I will on my undead hunter.
Iâm well aware of their history. The whole point of us providing our feedback here is to make the devs see that we do not agree with what they did, that the history of their making isnât as perfect as some like to pretend. You may disagree with us, but that doesnât devalue our arguments.
From the perspective of the devs, it was yes. But it was done at the expense of a lot of players who had/have no interest in playing a melee spec.
While Shadowlands hasnât done all that much for embracing the concept of Class Fantasy, I do agree with you. I myself prefer having access to a playstyle more specific to an identity of my choice, itâs the whole reason as to why Iâm so adamant at getting RSV back. Contrary to what certain posters here are saying, it wasnât just âMM with DoTsâ.
In what world is this a good argument? âIf they had decided to keep developing RSV, thereâs a small chance that they mightâve reworked parts of itsâ core functions, so best to just remove it in itsâ entirety insteadâ?
The parts about current SV that adhere to the old RSV, are an altered version of Serpent Sting + a weaker version of Serpent Spread(the talent that is Hydraâs Bite). Current SV also lacks any improvements to traps that we saw with old RSV.
AlsoâŚ
Old RSV was a spec built around the use of a ranged weapon, with abilities and effects adhering to that fantasy, one of augmented shots + enhanced traps. While there are things like explosives and animal venom in current SV, the entire fantasy and theme of the new spec have a very different approach to the concept.
If you like the new spec, thatâs fair. Thatâs entirely up to you. But in no way can it be argued that current SV maintains the same core fantasy as the old spec used to do.
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Have you tried playing the bomb build? The gun projectiles being swapped to bomb projectiles that much different?
Iâve only tried MSV during Alpha/Beta phases of new expansions. And while doing so, itâs just to look at whatâs new.
In a game where the whole point of class and spec development is to allow players to pursue an identity of their own, such things matter quite a lot yes, for a lot of players. To everyone who plays the game? No, but thatâs beside the point.
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Why donât you give it a shot? Itâs rather nice to use a class with 2h swords/axes/polearms/staves as primary fighting weapons. Next tierâs set also looks promising.
You have a point. But I think the current sv hunter still has stuff from the old just in different forms.
Like most hunters, when playing as a hunter, I have no interest in melee combat. It doesnât matter if only X% of the time spent fighting is done using melee-abilities. If it involves melee, I wonât play it.
On a superficial level, sure, ofc it does. That was very much what they were after when they designed it. The problem is that, even though current SV involves the use of Explosives, Animal Venom, etc., because of how the base concept and design differs from the fantasy of applying said elements to a spec focusing on ranged weaponry, by default, it becomes a very different fantasy.
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I would say it offers a more intimate side of hunters. Fighting close to your pet alongside them. Close to the action. Its fun to harpoon around with your pet charging in with you.
This is how they marketed the new MSV, yes. The problem, however, is still that it came at the loss of a playstyle that a lot of players enjoyed.
Anyway, I should probably clarify, Iâm not interested in having current SV removed. Hereâs what I want(note the mentioned preference of a 4th spec, in that link):
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I would like to see a previous incarnation of Survival (maybe WotLK version?) renamed and added as a fourth spec to hunters, because the game is in dire need of more ranged specs (especially non-caster ranged - with BM being more of a remote control melee spec itâs really only MM thatâs true physical ranged). The melee:ranged ratio is ridiculously tilted in favor of melee right now.
Removal of neo-Survival (melee version) isnât really necessary though.
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Pretending that lacking a ranged weapon is not a big deal is an extremely cringeworthy angle. We have all tried melee SV. It does not at all fulfil what was great about ranged SV, so stop trying to sell it to us. Lacking a ranged weapon is a dealbreaker. Any dependence at all on melee range is a dealbreaker, in fact.
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I am not trying to sell you on anything Bepples. I asked the other guy. I know you abhor melee classes. He said he only tried it in Alpha/beta. I think it plays really well with all the covenants and legendary.
They could add tinkers as a new class with a range spec. May even try to recreate SV with it some way.
Use mechanical pets, explosives, and guns. It will not capture 100% sv, but be a start.
I said that yes. The problem with these arguments is that theyâre made, seemingly, without an understanding of what theyâre meant to counter. That, or theyâre made in spite of it, simply for the sake of continuing an argument.
Like I said earlier, I havenât played current SV at any point beyond some initial testing of new abilities and effects, during alpha/beta cycles. If youâve visited the hunter forum, you know Toxic/Metroid loves to counter this by saying that we, those who havenât played current SV for X amount of time, we lack in-depth knowledge of the spec, and thus, should not participate in these discussions.
The thing is, if the reason as to why you(anyone) avoid current SV is because of itâs focus on melee-combat, then you donât need to have in-depth knowledge, or having played it for 100+ hours, to understand that you will not enjoy playing it more.
If you like the new MSV, thatâs perfectly fine. No one is saying that you canât/shouldnât.
The problem is that RSV was a quite popular choice for players, when it was still in the game. In fact, if you look at overall representation across the expansions, the median level of representation for Survival was higher than it was for both Beast Mastery and Marksmanship, while it was still ranged. They(the devs) removed this spec/playstyle in favor of one that, no matter itsâ relative strength or potential, ever since Legion, roughly only 4-6% of all hunters tend to stick with/play. This has been the case since BfA as well, despite how they reworked it yet again after just one expansion, in an attempt at making it more popular with the playerbase.
And not only that, their argument for removing RSV, was that âit was like Marksman, except with more traps, or different arrowsâ. This is ironic considering the specs did not share any abilities, nor did they share a common main fantasy, only the base core class fantasy of focusing on the use of ranged weapons. They replaced that spec with one that, as we can see on live right now, have taken/borrowed several abilities and effects from Beast Mastery.
Itâs very simply, these are some of the main reasons as to why discussions such as this one are still happening.
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If you guys loose Melee Hunter, youâll always be welcomed in Classic SoM.
People these days are super sensitive about everything and anything. 
Melee hunter do not exist, seudo-melee hunter if it exists.
I wouldnât be surprised if they did, but Iâm also not betting it will be any time soon. The spec has some of the lowest representation out there and is a failed experiment of reworking a spec from that perspective. Most people seem to now approach the class as either MM/BM or surv and people donât play hunter for melee. This class design would have worked fine on launch, but the class design is very ingrained in the culture now.
I know some people love it, but some people love every spec regardless of performance so itâs not exactly grounds for keeping it around. Still, I donât think Blizzard has any massive reworking plans.
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Wait until they find out Survival isnât melee in Classic.
Even if it were properly melee on launch (i.e. did not equip a ranged weapon and stuck to melee range) it would have been far worse off than BM and MM simply because depending on melee range is strictly worse than not depending on melee range. Enhancement and Feral have perpetual issues with appealing to players v.s. the ranged specs of their own class; they always need some special utility bribe to make them appealing choices. Those specs were melee from the start, they exist in classes that donât have ranged weapons cementing them as ranged-centric classes, and those classes each only had one ranged weapon. That makes it all the more baffling that Blizzard thought it could ever work out in the Hunter class.