I feel bad for the devs working on WotLK SoM

Communication. This is the #1 thing i hope Microsoft brings to Blizzard.

Because you can only run each raid once per week.

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more than likely the best entry to p2 content will be that heroic plus gear :smile:

since basically nobody will be running naxx tbh and they will just get carried in gdkp if gear is that much needed which i doubt it will be the case with ‘Classic’ type content difficulty.

Dude is crystal balling again.

Is it really going to be harder than Naxx 10, though? And we’re talking 5-mans, and you can run all of them every day if you desire. Plus, it’s worth mentioning that they’ll also drop EoE (and OS) 10 gear. A chance at Surge Needle Ring in a Heroic seems okay to me.

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Not to mention he doesn’t respect or value the time of the people who choose to clear content with him as he is averaging low blue parses on BLOOD DPS. He has no regard for anyone but himself and his toxic hatred only confirms this.

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The main issue I have with this is that by implementing Heroic+, Blizzard is effectively killing normal heroics. Why spend time doing normal heroics, if you can do Heroic+, get the same gear, with the addition of some Naxx 10 gear? In this case, the players that ARE gatekept out of Heroic+ runs because of gear have no hope of progressing through heroics.

I do agree that we need more communication from them regarding any and everything.

It’s funny you mention that, because is it not something that the Anti-RDF crowd says is an important thing? Spending time, playing your character, forming groups?

It has to be… You do realize they said they’re doing this to keep heroics relevant past Ulduar… right?

That’s a yikes from me dog.

It is going to be harder already than heroics.
Naxx 10 + Naxx 25 you’ll literally leave full geared in one run, with at least off pieces and higher ilvl than doing heroic+.

Oh so you’ve PTR’d it already.

Worth is purely in the eye of the beholder. Is it worth it to you or me? No. But some fresh 80 alt looking to jump into something a bit quicker may see value in them. To some it may be all they want, they may have no need to progress beyond that. That’s ok too. This is almost certainly them testing the water for classic M+ on the levels of retail. We will see though

The biggest problem is you’re unable to see beyond your own needs. You see no value in it therefore nobody will do it. The reality is that it takes nothing away from anybody. It’s all positive

If the heroic+ is hard enough that a fresh 80 can’t do it i’d imagine that yeah, normal heroics may dry up more outside of guilds running then internally and even then, chances are that those players can get a guild carry through heroic+ dungeons. Hopefully they are a level of difficulty between where we are now and where TBC heroics were. I’m sure someone will say “lmao, TBC heroics easy anyway” but that’s my guess as to a sweet spot for difficulty.

Heroic + are harder than heroics. That is already established.
The rewards are about the same from heroics (it is ilvl 200 gear epic from naxx), which currently is going to drop from the last boss only (we’ve to see this on PTR but it is not looking good).

So: worse loot rewards than naxx 10, harder than heroics (which already drop enough gear so you can do Naxx 10), worse loot rewards than naxx 10.

It looks like only people that can’t do math will do heroic+. Or people will do it once to get the achievements and being done with it.

As CATCH-UP mechanism, it failed hard.

If it was going to drop ilvl 213 gear from there (from naxx 25) at least from the last boss, then I would agree it would be worth, otherwise, it is not WORTH for anyone because there is no VALUE doing it.

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How can it fail before it even begins?

Again YOU see no value therefore you assume nobody will. Being so arrogant as to say something not implemented is already a failure

It shouldn’t be dropping Naxx 25 gear because it’s only 5m content. Controlling 5 will never be as hard as 25. It may be harder than heroics, but the bar for being harder than heroics has never been lower in the history of this game. Wrath heroics are the easiest heroics this game has ever seen. A difficulty bump is welcome. And we don’t know what kind of bump we’re looking at.

You can grumble all day but it’s coming. And it doesn’t hurt you in anyways (this thing we keep ignoring)

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If Heroic+ IS easy enough that a fresh 80 can successfully complete it, then normal heroics will become obsolete - again, why run heroics, when you can run Heroic+ and get better gear?

Additionally, if you consider the fact that the two versions will likely be sharing the same lockout, that means that players will generally choose Heroic+, since they have a chance at getting better loot.

This is assuming that their guild is capable of effectively 4-manning the run, that the player in question is in a guild, and that they’d want a carry.

So why don’t you tell me how do you value it?

Even if I CHANGE my statement from “no value at all” to “questionable value”, it is still bad time investment from the dev team on a feature that will rarely being used.

Again, if you see VALUE on it, you’re in serious trouble. No one is going to use Heroic+ as catch up mechanism as it is. You’re not going into Ulduar with lvl 200 gear and saying “I’m ready” lmao.

You’re doing Naxx/EoE/OS 10 (213/226 ilvl gear) + Naxx/EoE/OS 25 (213/226 ilvl gear), and they don’t require you to be in pre-bis gear, so, again.

Even if you add sugar on poop, it is still poop, no matter how much sugar is worth.

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This is true. However, the question is, how does Blizzard intend to maintain heroic’s relevancy going into future phases without increasing the difficulty to match the gear available?

They are allowing only pre-made characters which already have some sort of pre-raid bis gear from level 80 heroics / dungeons. So, in short, a fresh 80 with no gear at all will not be doing heroic+

– With same gear, why would you do heroic+ if you can simply do naxx/eoe/os 10 if they basically require same gear, and the raids will drop ilvl 213 and heroic+ will drop ilvl 200?

I see this as a easy way for a player to catch up without having to be drug through raids. 5m convenience cannot be understated. It is just a ton easier to run with 4 others vs 24 others. A fresh green may be able to step in to these, enjoy a more challenging heroic and jump into entry raids quicker. Just because you do not see value in that doesn’t mean nobody will. Guilds don’t want to drag people through old raids. I would 1000% rather players run these and step into Ulduar a tad behind Naxx 25 gear than have to drag 2-3 new recruits through Naxx 25 to get some small Ilvl gains.

I have no idea. They may go into additional + levels like retail (oh no scary R word!). That would probably be really successful. One thing retail has done extremely well is maintaining dungeon relevance throughout expansions.

Usually this comes via a difficulty tweak and a ilvl increase. Idk to what extent they want to take this though. In retail it’s its own gear path parallel to raiding. In classic they seem to see it more as a stopgap middle ground